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ISUBU
Freshman
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Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 pm
Spack fired 3 offensive coaches and pushed out a 4th. Spack wants to make playoffs .. all decisions will and should be made with that goal in mind.
The head coach really shook things up. If those changes didn't grab some players' attention, nothing will.

I also saw Spacks enthusiasm for the new guy in the press conference. Last year so much was made about Kolbes effort...and the mental work he put in. Just like the defense needed to have less to think about, I believe Kolbe has a chance to play more freely. Smart yes, but without second guessing himself. If he does that, I think he'll have a great year. As cerebral as he's been described, it was the bad choices that I think have limited Kolbe more than anything else.

fourthandshort
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Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:36 pm

ISUBU wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 pm
Spack fired 3 offensive coaches and pushed out a 4th. Spack wants to make playoffs .. all decisions will and should be made with that goal in mind.
The head coach really shook things up. If those changes didn't grab some players' attention, nothing will.

I also saw Spacks enthusiasm for the new guy in the press conference. Last year so much was made about Kolbes effort...and the mental work he put in. Just like the defense needed to have less to think about, I believe Kolbe has a chance to play more freely. Smart yes, but without second guessing himself. If he does that, I think he'll have a great year. As cerebral as he's been described, it was the bad choices that I think have limited Kolbe more than anything else.
agreed .. and Beathard will have a much more calming influence on Kolbe and the entire locker room. Dicken was polar opposite, too prone to over-reaction .. Kolbe was never comfortable playing under Dicken.

Going to tell same true story I've told once or twice before .. 100% true from 2016 ... Kolbe had a pretty good year with 145 QBR, despite clearly struggling in the pocket .. no small accomplishment for a SO QB still figuring out the pass rush and pocket pressure. Finished season with just 7 picks .. which brings me to my story. We're well into season, making our late season run of wins, playing a close game at home .. need the win period, and a FG may ice the game. We were driving down field in 4th qtr and have a 3rd and long (maybe 8 yards) .. may or may not have to pass .. right ??? We call timeout, call a play, offense starts jogging back on field .. Dicken yells to Kolbe who is now 20 yards away with defense standing waiting for us ... Dicken yells to Kolbe, "can't have a pick here Jake".

Not sure what was worse .. confirming for defense you were passing, or that you had no confidence in you QB .. the QB who had just 7 picks on season.

Fun Fact .. below is MVFC Top 8 QB Interception Rate per 100 passes from 2016:

1.22 per 100 passes
1.92
2.07
2.16
3.03
3.12
3.30
5.34

Guess which one was Kolbe ???

2nd at 1.92 picks per 100 passes (7 picks in 365 passes)

Guess where SDSU Christion, NDSU Stick, USD Streveler, and WIU McQuire all fell ??

3rd, 6th, 7th, and 5th

But Dicken can't fight his urge to remind Kolbe right in front of ISU sideline (and the left CB for opponent defense) that we don't need a pick. What did Kolbe do ... wound up throwing it away .. thanks for vote of confidence coach !!!

OC Beathard should have a calming influence on everyone.
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StLRedbird
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:42 am

pantagraph wrote:“I was looking for arm talent. We need a big arm,” Spack said. “I felt I didn’t know coming out of spring if we had a guy who could challenge Jake in the program. Bryce Jefferson is a very good player, but I didn’t want to put that kind of pressure on a freshman.

“This guy (Davis) will come in as our No. 2 and go up or down based on what he does. Jake is our starting quarterback right now. Everybody knows that. Everybody was told that. The best player will play.”
I think it's useful to look back at what Spack said about this when the transfer was announced. This sounds very much like a guy who was concerned about his QB being complacent. What was most distressing about Kolbe's performance last year was that he regressed from outstanding progress he had made in his SO year. If you don't have a big arm you absolutely must be able to consistently pick up that third and eight from your guy that is supposed to have an accurate short game. Davis will be brought in when they are stuffing us and need some behavior modification.
https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/colle ... 2ada7.html

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TIMMY
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am

A big guy with a big arm who can run. Dual threat at QB. That's the Beathard offence. Don't ya just love football. Competition!!!
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Redbird28
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:06 am

After watching the hudl film on him, all those comments kind of seem to add up to Davis being the guy if he proves himself in practice. It may not be game 1, but it wouldn't surprise me if he surpasses Kolbe just based on the big arm ability.
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fourthandshort
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am
A big guy with a big arm who can run. Dual threat at QB. That's the Beathard offence. Don't ya just love football. Competition!!!
offence ?

your spelling is getting a little "crazzy"

But yes, the competition at RB only raises the bar as they fight for reps .. so it can only help at QB. Except, we do need stability at QB position more than any other .. no drama ... so changes should come slower. My clock starts ticking between weeks 4 and 5 leading up to MVFC home opener against WIU ... we need to start firing on all cylinders by then, including hopefully having picked our QB .. and build from there for playoff run. No absolutes on that timing, but it would be nice to have it QB position resolved by then.
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RedbirdSF67
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:21 pm

This is tough decision making for our coaches in terms of QB 1 & 2. It's all mute if we dont have a second and third receiver emerge. We need receivers that can block too, extremely important for a strong running game. So big kids, we need long guys . I see guys like Biegalsky and Hadden providing stability early along with Schnell of course. Patterson would be great on play action with his speed, less need for a blocker. I think we have four, but another guy needs to emerge out of that young group. Plus our two TE's have a lot of experience. We should be ok.
Last edited by RedbirdSF67 on Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TIMMY
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am
A big guy with a big arm who can run. Dual threat at QB. That's the Beathard offence. Don't ya just love football. Competition!!!
offence ?

your spelling is getting a little "crazzy"

But yes, the competition at RB only raises the bar as they fight for reps .. so it can only help at QB. Except, we do need stability at QB position more than any other .. no drama ... so changes should come slower. My clock starts ticking between weeks 4 and 5 leading up to MVFC home opener against WIU ... we need to start firing on all cylinders by then, including hopefully having picked our QB .. and build from there for playoff run. No absolutes on that timing, but it would be nice to have it QB position resolved by then.
The coaches already know who the better QB is. I don't and I'm not pretending to. I do know read option works better when there's actually an option. It's a play one guy can run. Beathard runs the hell out of it and runs play action off of it. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+t ... ORM=VRDGAR
I'm not saying anyone's Tre. But read option, RPO's Deep ball. Call me intrigued.
Now check my spelling and get back to me. ;)
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fourthandshort
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:32 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:46 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:32 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am
A big guy with a big arm who can run. Dual threat at QB. That's the Beathard offence. Don't ya just love football. Competition!!!
offence ?

your spelling is getting a little "crazzy"

But yes, the competition at RB only raises the bar as they fight for reps .. so it can only help at QB. Except, we do need stability at QB position more than any other .. no drama ... so changes should come slower. My clock starts ticking between weeks 4 and 5 leading up to MVFC home opener against WIU ... we need to start firing on all cylinders by then, including hopefully having picked our QB .. and build from there for playoff run. No absolutes on that timing, but it would be nice to have it QB position resolved by then.
The coaches already know who the better QB is. I don't and I'm not pretending to. I do know read option works better when there's actually an option. It's a play one guy can run. Beathard runs the hell out of it and runs play action off of it. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=+t ... ORM=VRDGAR
I'm not saying anyone's Tre. But read option, RPO's Deep ball. Call me intrigued.
Now check my spelling and get back to me. ;)
no reason to get all defencive !! :dance:

they may have an idea who has more pure talent, but still need to see how he handles learning playbook and if he gets rattled easily in game.

Right now, with only having seen his highlights, I give him 50/50 chance of seeing field when it truly matters by week 4 or 5. So I'm open minded.

p.s. thanks for link .. never saw that highlight reel before .. nice memories of Roberson !!!
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SteveO
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Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 pm

Davis will see action the second half of the first game. He will be starting by week 4. Listen to Coach's press conference. He gushes about him and then says "oh, and Kolbe is playing well too".

JHBird
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:29 am

SteveO wrote:
Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:46 pm
Davis will see action the second half of the first game. He will be starting by week 4. Listen to Coach's press conference. He gushes about him and then says "oh, and Kolbe is playing well too".
Davis will get a chance somewhere early in the season. He just has to seize the opportunity and literally 'run with it'. I only wish he had three more year of eligibility instead of two.

RedbirdSF67
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:57 am

It's sounding like the offense is abusing the defense at this point in the short scrimmage yesterday. Encouraging on one end, but brings questions on the other end. Listening to Deforest in the video from yesterday speak, he basically saying it will make the defense better as they have to go against that Oline everyday. Folks, I think we have a upper half big 10 type offensive line in Normal Illinois! With the quality of our backs, wow.

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Total Red
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:34 am

We're getting a little carried away here. Davis has good mobility but he's never been a prolific runner so
we shouldn't expect a lot of rushing yards. There could be exceptions. I remember Matt Brown tucking and running 50 yards right up the middle of the field because the defense didn't expect him to run but that was an exception for him and not the rule. Likewise if Brady wins the job it will mainly be due
to his arm and not his legs.

fourthandshort
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Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:04 am

Total Red wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:34 am
We're getting a little carried away here. Davis has good mobility but he's never been a prolific runner so
we shouldn't expect a lot of rushing yards. There could be exceptions. I remember Matt Brown tucking and running 50 yards right up the middle of the field because the defense didn't expect him to run but that was an exception for him and not the rule. Likewise if Brady wins the job it will mainly be due
to his arm and not his legs.
Not sure either either about Davis escapability and dual threat running skills .. not to mention learning how to avoid and take hits. He hasn't played when it counted in almost 4 years when he was in HS .. but we will find out.

Note, Kolbe was a very good dual threat HS QB playing for 8A IL championship team in the toughest Dupage Valley football conference .. he has a very impressive highlight reel with like 70% of plays being him on the run, either avoid rush or making big run plays. Then he got to MVFC and he really struggled in pocket as SO despite good throwing numbers and very good returning OL. Then flipped the script as JR with brand new weak OL .. when he was much better in pocket (i've posted stats to support his big improvement in pocket), despite weak throwing numbers and playing behind a weak OL.

I know people are tired of me defending Kolbe ... but this is another reason I like Kolbe's chances to break out this year .. he figured out the pocket last year behind a weak OL and now has what looks to be a good OL this year .. world of difference for QB as game slows down behind a good OL and plays are more likely develop like intended ... that and a much better OC.

I'm open minded right now .. 50/50 as I said .. but not willing to rule out Kolbe running the table at QB. He led his HS to 8a state championship playing in the toughest conference in IL. But he had the full confidence of his coaches and team .. hasn't had that here.

Regardless, he obviously needs to prove himself after his JR season decline ... but there is lot of blame to go around for last years offense .. OC, WRs, OL, QB .. take your pick.
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MadBird
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Interesting article today, I know you shouldn't read too much into these early "scrimmages", but I took note that 2 TD's and one almost TD that was broken up (by a freshman DB) were completed to freshman WR's! The intended receiver of the breakup is the kid from E. St. Louis that Spack was giving big props to the new receivers coach from getting here. Maybe help for the passing game is on the way??? :)

Good reports about the O-line, guess that isn't news, but nice to hear they're getting their swagger. RB's are tough. QB's too.

Still think the D will be fine, settling into a new scheme, new DC, working in some new guys, etc. Some good talent there to work with.

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Total Red
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Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:28 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 pm
As a guy who had very high hopes for SO Kolbe, he did really struggle a lot as JR Kolbe ... I have been vocal and put more blame on OC Dicken than Kolbe ..
We've differed on this issue. You hold Dicken responsible for Kolbe's Jr. season drop off ('17) and I've pointed to the youthful offensive line for '17 with 4 starters gone from '16. Dicken coached both '16 and '17.

Someone could try to punch a hole in my story by pointing out that Kolbe was actually sacked many more times in '16 when he had good passing numbers than in '17 when his passing numbers fell off. First off he had more attempts in '16 but I also think that (ironically) he had more confidence in his protection in '16. With more confidence in the O-Line Kolbe could work through his progression and find his 2nd or 3rd read open resulting in the higher completion percentage but more sacks. In '17 with less confidence in his line Kolbe was locking on to his first read and throwing when he felt the pressure even when the receiver was covered resulting in fewer sacks but a lower completion pct. and more INT's. That may or may not be how it happened but the theory fits the numbers.

fourthandshort
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Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:59 am

Total Red wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 6:28 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:10 pm
As a guy who had very high hopes for SO Kolbe, he did really struggle a lot as JR Kolbe ... I have been vocal and put more blame on OC Dicken than Kolbe ..
We've differed on this issue. You hold Dicken responsible for Kolbe's Jr. season drop off ('17) and I've pointed to the youthful offensive line for '17 with 4 starters gone from '16. Dicken coached both '16 and '17.

Someone could try to punch a hole in my story by pointing out that Kolbe was actually sacked many more times in '16 when he had good passing numbers than in '17 when his passing numbers fell off. First off he had more attempts in '16 but I also think that (ironically) he had more confidence in his protection in '16. With more confidence in the O-Line Kolbe could work through his progression and find his 2nd or 3rd read open resulting in the higher completion percentage but more sacks. In '17 with less confidence in his line Kolbe was locking on to his first read and throwing when he felt the pressure even when the receiver was covered resulting in fewer sacks but a lower completion pct. and more INT's. That may or may not be how it happened but the theory fits the numbers.
we agree on point you made about Kolbe feeling even more pressure in 2017 .. my main point was this:

- in 2016, he wrongly perceived and just poorly handled the pressure as SO behind a good OL, and he struggled dealing with pocket pressure, even while he did a nice job throwing the ball

- in 2017, he rightly perceived the pressure and handled it way better than 2016, but his passing numbers fell off for reasons you stated better than I did.

But I still place blame on Dicken both years .. the relationship was not working. QB needs to know his OC (and QB coach .. same guy in this case) in in his corner at all times.

Kolbe never had that with Dicken .. so I'm expecting to see his confidence grow this year. We'll see how he deals with pressure of a viable #2.
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Chi-bird
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Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:04 am

Kolbe has Beathard back now, so we'll see just how much that makes a difference. I haven't see the year by year improvement from him that you'd like to see. He's been here 4 years now, entering his 5th. Spack has gone on (and off) record saying how good of a prospect he was since the day he stepped foot on campus. I think we'll know by the second half of Colorado State whether or not he's our guy or not.

Adunk33
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Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:09 am

I got a chance to watch some of this mornings practice. Davis is goooooood. Kolbe appeared to still be running with the 1's. Davis had a Roberson-like read option where he put the ball in Smith's stomach, Smith took a few steps and David pulled it out and went the other way. Also had a dime to a TE in the back of the endzone. Kolbe's best play that I saw he ran a QB draw and picked up 8ish yards.

#38 was the best kicker today from what I saw.

JHBird
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Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:11 pm

Adunk33 wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:09 am
I got a chance to watch some of this mornings practice. Davis is goooooood. Kolbe appeared to still be running with the 1's. Davis had a Roberson-like read option where he put the ball in Smith's stomach, Smith took a few steps and David pulled it out and went the other way. Also had a dime to a TE in the back of the endzone. Kolbe's best play that I saw he ran a QB draw and picked up 8ish yards.

#38 was the best kicker today from what I saw.
It makes you wonder how good Davis will be once he gets completely comfortable in the offense. Are most of the practices open to the public? I might walk over there sometime.

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