If you are having problems getting into your account, email me (isuquinndog@redbirdfan.net) from the email you signed up with and your username.

In-state athletic budgets..

The place to talk Redbird Football

Moderator: Football Moderators

User avatar
TIMMY
Senior
Posts: 1156
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:43 am

Interesting. No one leaves a Notre Dame game early. They stay till the bitter end. They stay for the alma mater, fight song and post game band stuff. I think a big reason for that are the alumni in the stands. It's hard to get tickets through their lottery system. And going to games becomes a habit when you are a freshman there. It's just what you do on a Saturday. You wouldn't think of doing anything else. So you go back. Every week for a lifetime. They plan their lives around it. Football and a Knigh's of Columbus steak sandwich! Can't beat it.

We just don't have that and never have that I remember. Even in he 70's I had to drag people across Main St. I haven't seen it change one bit. Until that culture changes nothing else will. We have an big alumni base, but that has never translated into a fan base.

To answer your question no I don't think an indoor stadium would matter.
User avatar
StLRedbird
Sophomore
Posts: 386
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:44 am

Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:59 am
One question, if the Birds had an indoor stadium like NDSU and climate control, do you think there would be more fans in the seats or that they would stay the whole game? My guess is no it really would not make that much of a difference.
This is a problem throughout college football, so I say no, it wouldn't matter. I know for a fact that getting the student section to return for the second half has been a problem for years at Mizzou. With the number of satellite rigs in the tailgate lots, the problem has spread into other parts of the stadium. I believe that beer & wine sales are in part motivated by a desire to keep these tailgaters in their seats.
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1879
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:10 pm

StLRedbird wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:44 am
Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:59 am
One question, if the Birds had an indoor stadium like NDSU and climate control, do you think there would be more fans in the seats or that they would stay the whole game? My guess is no it really would not make that much of a difference.
This is a problem throughout college football, so I say no, it wouldn't matter. I know for a fact that getting the student section to return for the second half has been a problem for years at Mizzou. With the number of satellite rigs in the tailgate lots, the problem has spread into other parts of the stadium. I believe that beer & wine sales are in part motivated by a desire to keep these tailgaters in their seats.
:text-+1: agree that technology (satellite tv / smart phones/ bars with many football games on at once) has changed viewing preferences. Just because the fans leave the stadium at half does not necessarily mean they do not care about the outcome nor are they finished watching. Home teams ought to be certain they have a good espn plus announcer crew covering their home game as many alums/fans may be watching from afar and that presentation is a reflection on the home teams athletic program
Last edited by ChiRedbirdfan on Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Virginia Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 411
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:15 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:43 am
Interesting. No one leaves a Notre Dame game early. They stay till the bitter end. They stay for the alma mater, fight song and post game band stuff. I think a big reason for that are the alumni in the stands. It's hard to get tickets through their lottery system. And going to games becomes a habit when you are a freshman there. It's just what you do on a Saturday. You wouldn't think of doing anything else. So you go back. Every week for a lifetime. They plan their lives around it. Football and a Knigh's of Columbus steak sandwich! Can't beat it.

We just don't have that and never have that I remember. Even in he 70's I had to drag people across Main St. I haven't seen it change one bit. Until that culture changes nothing else will. We have an big alumni base, but that has never translated into a fan base.

To answer your question no I don't think an indoor stadium would matter.
A bit off-topic but I have been to a number of Notre Dame games and it is an entire weekend experience, not just a few hours at the stadium. Friday Pep Rally, trumpet band in the golden dome, tailgating, the player/coach walk to the stadium. If you have not done an ND game you should try to make it. Great fun. Notre Dame is just...well...Norte Dame. Any college football fan should make at least one game there.
I was at ISU in the early 70's and my experience was the same. Most students did not want to go and if the weather was bad...forget it. I remember sitting in the stands for a game with NIU and it was sleeting and cold and wet and miserable. I stayed until the end but I did not have much company. The team was pretty good back them with Ron Bell running the ball and Gerry Hart coaching. I arrived in Normal the last year Doug Collins was there though and nobody really cared much about anything but basketball.
Unless you have a fan base like say Appalachian State, that is rabid for football, I am not sure a move to FBS makes sense. I have no stats to back that up...just a feeling.
That being said I really enjoyed my game experience at Hancock. Really nice stadium with the improvements and I tell you what...our marching band should take a back seat to nobody. I was really impressed with them. I had a great time but probably part of that was the very sentimental trip down memory lane walking across the Quad and remembering good times. I was lucky to see a great game by the Birds kicking SDSU's butt and wrecking their dreams that season.
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1879
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 am

TIMMY wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:43 am
Interesting. No one leaves a Notre Dame game early. They stay till the bitter end. They stay for the alma mater, fight song and post game band stuff. I think a big reason for that are the alumni in the stands. It's hard to get tickets through their lottery system. And going to games becomes a habit when you are a freshman there. It's just what you do on a Saturday. You wouldn't think of doing anything else. So you go back. Every week for a lifetime. They plan their lives around it. Football and a Knigh's of Columbus steak sandwich! Can't beat it.

We just don't have that and never have that I remember. Even in he 70's I had to drag people across Main St. I haven't seen it change one bit. Until that culture changes nothing else will. We have an big alumni base, but that has never translated into a fan base.

To answer your question no I don't think an indoor stadium would matter.
Can’t argue your thoughts Timmy about ND but their game day environment is so unique and nearly unmatched by any team in any sport. Tough standard for any program to try and match.
User avatar
TIMMY
Senior
Posts: 1156
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Sun Sep 29, 2019 1:08 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:00 am
TIMMY wrote:
Sat Sep 28, 2019 10:43 am
Interesting. No one leaves a Notre Dame game early. They stay till the bitter end. They stay for the alma mater, fight song and post game band stuff. I think a big reason for that are the alumni in the stands. It's hard to get tickets through their lottery system. And going to games becomes a habit when you are a freshman there. It's just what you do on a Saturday. You wouldn't think of doing anything else. So you go back. Every week for a lifetime. They plan their lives around it. Football and a Knigh's of Columbus steak sandwich! Can't beat it.

We just don't have that and never have that I remember. Even in he 70's I had to drag people across Main St. I haven't seen it change one bit. Until that culture changes nothing else will. We have an big alumni base, but that has never translated into a fan base.

To answer your question no I don't think an indoor stadium would matter.
Can’t argue your thoughts Timmy about ND but their game day environment is so unique and nearly unmatched by any team in any sport. Tough standard for any program to try and match.
Agree ND is unique but there are plenty of schools that do pretty cool stuff. Just the ones I've had been privileged to see. And they're all Alumni driven. Tailgate at LSU. The Grove at Ole Miss. Salute to the hill at Tennessee. That's probably the coolest.
Anyway I'm not saying our game day could ever match that stuff. I am saying we've never been able to get students to games the way a school our size should. That translates into alumni coming back. And without that trying to move to FBS is not going to work. We don't have enough "investment" in the program from our alums. We're not even Appalachian State. It's a shame.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:13 am

We just have to understand that there is no magic pill, keep the school itself expanding in both programs and enrollments, get the athletic budget to increase towards $40M.. keep upgrading facilities and hiring quality coaches and if the chance to bump up occurs, we are positioned to do such.
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2142
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:52 am

Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:13 am
We just have to understand that there is no magic pill, keep the school itself expanding in both programs and enrollments, get the athletic budget to increase towards $40M.. keep upgrading facilities and hiring quality coaches and if the chance to bump up occurs, we are positioned to do such.
adding more professional undergrad program seems like the key here.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:56 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:52 am
Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:13 am
We just have to understand that there is no magic pill, keep the school itself expanding in both programs and enrollments, get the athletic budget to increase towards $40M.. keep upgrading facilities and hiring quality coaches and if the chance to bump up occurs, we are positioned to do such.
adding more professional undergrad program seems like the key here.
We have a few kids from our school down at Southern Miss, which is a school we should be able to match in athletics.. I see their pics on social media of their game day experience and get jealous, things like that should be the goal.
User avatar
Redbirdwarrior
Junior
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Mon Sep 30, 2019 2:52 pm

Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:56 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:52 am
Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:13 am
We just have to understand that there is no magic pill, keep the school itself expanding in both programs and enrollments, get the athletic budget to increase towards $40M.. keep upgrading facilities and hiring quality coaches and if the chance to bump up occurs, we are positioned to do such.
adding more professional undergrad program seems like the key here.
We have a few kids from our school down at Southern Miss, which is a school we should be able to match in athletics.. I see their pics on social media of their game day experience and get jealous, things like that should be the goal.
Southern Miss has many an article on it's problems with losing money on athletics and nosediving attendance. Their last game against UTEP did bring more than 23,000 fans, though... which is about 65% capacity, but still 23,000 fans.

That said, they compete with 0 professional sports and only 2 major colleges (maybe 3 if you are willing to stretch the boundary to Baton Rouge) anywhere near their market. When comparing that to Illinois State, you are comparing apples to penguins.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 30, 2019 3:01 pm

Great points...

The key for us now it to grow the school, a huge step would be to get the engineering school going.. get enrollment to grow by 1-2% a year..
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:00 pm

During the tailgating on Sat this topic came up, that cash is king and for the athletic department to continue to ascend, we must continue to increase our spending, with marketing the programs being the key. Obviously with us being the state school we have an advantage over the directionals, I feel the game day experience has improved with better tailgating. But what else needs to be done? With expanding enrollment and programs, the possibilities have to be there.
ST_Lawson
Freshman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 am
Location: Macomb, IL
Contact:

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 pm

Jon99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am
I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined... congrats to them for having competitive football on a shoe string budget..
We're a combined 0-13 this year and are probably looking down the barrel of a combined 1-23 record...if we're lucky.
We're DII's masquerading as DI's...don't compare yourself to us.
Admin of LeatherneckNation.net
Alumnus/Employee/Fan of Western Illinois University
WIU Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2142
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:26 pm

ST_Lawson wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 pm
Jon99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am
I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined... congrats to them for having competitive football on a shoe string budget..
We're a combined 0-13 this year and are probably looking down the barrel of a combined 1-23 record...if we're lucky.
We're DII's masquerading as DI's...don't compare yourself to us.
True this year, but prior to this year WIU was on very similar level of performance over the last 5 years. EIU ... not so much in a long time, other than 2013 ... their high point and our low point.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
User avatar
chuckie1980
Junior
Posts: 585
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:02 pm

Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:57 am

Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 149
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:39 am

ST_Lawson wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 pm
Jon99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am
I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined... congrats to them for having competitive football on a shoe string budget..
We're a combined 0-13 this year and are probably looking down the barrel of a combined 1-23 record...if we're lucky.
We're DII's masquerading as DI's...don't compare yourself to us.
I am not a member of your board, but I wanted to say thanks for your very lengthy thread about the issues WIU is facing, was a great thread and very informative reading.
ST_Lawson
Freshman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 am
Location: Macomb, IL
Contact:

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:30 am

Jon99 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:39 am
ST_Lawson wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 pm
Jon99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am
I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined... congrats to them for having competitive football on a shoe string budget..
We're a combined 0-13 this year and are probably looking down the barrel of a combined 1-23 record...if we're lucky.
We're DII's masquerading as DI's...don't compare yourself to us.
I am not a member of your board, but I wanted to say thanks for your very lengthy thread about the issues WIU is facing, was a great thread and very informative reading.
Thanks.

It's been a rough few years. Obviously we've all been hit heard by the state financial problems, but U of I and ISU have weathered that storm pretty solidly. The directional/regional schools...not so much. When the budget crisis hit, confidence in the sustainability of many of them took a huge hit and enrollment dropped like a rock. Local issues involving disagreements between administration, faculty/staff, and the community caused much bad press for both WIU and SIU, which has exacerbated the situation. Things are starting to look "up" somewhat now, but it's going to take a long time to dig out of this hole...if we can dig out of it at all.

The reality of the situation now is that compared to the DII schools in the GLVC and MAII (nearby regional DII conferences), WIU has lower enrollment than 3 of them, would be 13th out of 21 teams for home football attendance, and are located in a town that's significantly smaller than most of them. It takes money invested in facilities and coaches to improve our athletics, but we just don't have any right now.
Admin of LeatherneckNation.net
Alumnus/Employee/Fan of Western Illinois University
WIU Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2142
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:42 am

ST_Lawson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:30 am
Jon99 wrote:
Sun Oct 13, 2019 10:39 am
ST_Lawson wrote:
Sat Oct 12, 2019 5:09 pm


We're a combined 0-13 this year and are probably looking down the barrel of a combined 1-23 record...if we're lucky.
We're DII's masquerading as DI's...don't compare yourself to us.
I am not a member of your board, but I wanted to say thanks for your very lengthy thread about the issues WIU is facing, was a great thread and very informative reading.
Thanks.

It's been a rough few years. Obviously we've all been hit heard by the state financial problems, but U of I and ISU have weathered that storm pretty solidly. The directional/regional schools...not so much. When the budget crisis hit, confidence in the sustainability of many of them took a huge hit and enrollment dropped like a rock. Local issues involving disagreements between administration, faculty/staff, and the community caused much bad press for both WIU and SIU, which has exacerbated the situation. Things are starting to look "up" somewhat now, but it's going to take a long time to dig out of this hole...if we can dig out of it at all.

The reality of the situation now is that compared to the DII schools in the GLVC and MAII (nearby regional DII conferences), WIU has lower enrollment than 3 of them, would be 13th out of 21 teams for home football attendance, and are located in a town that's significantly smaller than most of them. It takes money invested in facilities and coaches to improve our athletics, but we just don't have any right now.
lawson .. rough times for sure for several schools in your situation. What about the predident that was just pushed out ... I never rewad up on the details of that ouster. Was he part of the problem or just a victim of no win situation ??
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
ST_Lawson
Freshman
Posts: 29
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 am
Location: Macomb, IL
Contact:

Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:54 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:42 am
lawson .. rough times for sure for several schools in your situation. What about the predident that was just pushed out ... I never rewad up on the details of that ouster. Was he part of the problem or just a victim of no win situation ??
A bit of both. He definitely shared some of the blame...didn't really give the "full story" about how things were here back to the legislature (essentially made it look like we were doing fine), made a lot of faculty angry with him about how he dealt with them and their union, etc. This last summer though, a group of locals and business owners banded together in a "Fire Jack" campaign to get him removed. This campaign was partially due to the decreasing enrollment and decreasing number of university employees (due to years of layoffs) hurting local sales and tax numbers, however it was also at least somewhat racially-motivated (Dr. Jack Thomas was WIU's first black president), because if it was really just about the economy, there's more people that should have been included in the campaign...both other members of the administration (some of whom are still at the university) and some of our local lawmakers (who have done very little in the way of fighting for our region to get state funding help).

At that point, Dr. Thomas "decided" it was "in everyone's best interest if he step down".

Our minority student population was angry about it because it looks like a big part of why he was forced out was because he was black.
Many other people are angry because he was able to negotiate a deal with the board that, on paper, looks pretty "cushy". The thing is though, because of the way it was handled, he could have had a legitimate cause to bring a lawsuit against the university. I'm not a legal expert, so I don't know if it'd be something like "hostile work environment" or "racial discrimination" or what...but it would have been legitimate. Even if he didn't win, it would have likely gone on for years and cost the university even more in legal fees and bad press than the "exit deal" ended up costing us.

Now, we have some of the people who caused the problem (or made it worse) gone, but there's still people who were a part of it who are still here. The new BOT and new Interim President all seem to be doing a great job (Interim President Abraham has been doing an AMAZING job of reaching out to the university and local community...going to events, talking to people...and listening to people), but that was only part of the problem. We'll have to see where enrollment goes next fall to see if they've been able to do enough to stop the "bleeding".
Admin of LeatherneckNation.net
Alumnus/Employee/Fan of Western Illinois University
WIU Marching Leathernecks - 1996-2000
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2142
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:56 am

ST_Lawson wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:54 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:42 am
lawson .. rough times for sure for several schools in your situation. What about the predident that was just pushed out ... I never rewad up on the details of that ouster. Was he part of the problem or just a victim of no win situation ??
A bit of both. He definitely shared some of the blame...didn't really give the "full story" about how things were here back to the legislature (essentially made it look like we were doing fine), made a lot of faculty angry with him about how he dealt with them and their union, etc. This last summer though, a group of locals and business owners banded together in a "Fire Jack" campaign to get him removed. This campaign was partially due to the decreasing enrollment and decreasing number of university employees (due to years of layoffs) hurting local sales and tax numbers, however it was also at least somewhat racially-motivated (Dr. Jack Thomas was WIU's first black president), because if it was really just about the economy, there's more people that should have been included in the campaign...both other members of the administration (some of whom are still at the university) and some of our local lawmakers (who have done very little in the way of fighting for our region to get state funding help).

At that point, Dr. Thomas "decided" it was "in everyone's best interest if he step down".

Our minority student population was angry about it because it looks like a big part of why he was forced out was because he was black.
Many other people are angry because he was able to negotiate a deal with the board that, on paper, looks pretty "cushy". The thing is though, because of the way it was handled, he could have had a legitimate cause to bring a lawsuit against the university. I'm not a legal expert, so I don't know if it'd be something like "hostile work environment" or "racial discrimination" or what...but it would have been legitimate. Even if he didn't win, it would have likely gone on for years and cost the university even more in legal fees and bad press than the "exit deal" ended up costing us.

Now, we have some of the people who caused the problem (or made it worse) gone, but there's still people who were a part of it who are still here. The new BOT and new Interim President all seem to be doing a great job (Interim President Abraham has been doing an AMAZING job of reaching out to the university and local community...going to events, talking to people...and listening to people), but that was only part of the problem. We'll have to see where enrollment goes next fall to see if they've been able to do enough to stop the "bleeding".
Tough situation ... thanks for recap !
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
Post Reply