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Birds @ Loyola

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
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Bird Friend
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:04 pm

The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:13 pm


While I never say "never," we're in the final two months of the three year MY experiment. There's nothing to learn anymore.

All Muller can do now is mitigate the meltdown when he sees it coming. And it happened again yesterday. Unlike the rest of the game, MY was clearly in a mental space that wasn't in the Gentile Center after the two turnovers. Once that happens, Muller has learned MY is not snapping back anytime soon, especially with just a few seconds left in the game. He's also on record saying the rest of the team takes it's energy from MY, for better or worse. Muller had to take him out yesterday, and his post game comment of putting Jefferson in for his 3-point shooting was clearly a cover.

It's not a dig to say this is who MY is. At least right now, and it's unlikely to change by March.
The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.
Also seemed Hawkins and Muller came to some sort of agreement. I don't remember any meltdowns/benchings during DH's final season.
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Racine Bird 3813
Freshman
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:23 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:12 pm

I think Dan is knowledge about the game and is able to recruit players. Unfortunately putting all the pieces together and running a program I feel is lacking. I look at Porter Moser now vs his time with us. Porter benefited greatly by learning from Rick Majerus in St. Louis. I think Dan is a great assistant coach but I think he still has some learning to do still.
Last edited by Racine Bird 3813 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:57 pm

Racine Bird 3813 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:12 pm
I think Dan is knowledge about the game and is able to recruit players. Unfortunately putting all the pieces together and running a program I feel is lacking. I look at Porter Moser now vs his time with us. Porter benefited greatly by learning from Rick Majerus in St. Louis. I think Dan is a great assistant coach but I don't think he still has some learning to do still.
I would agree! He can’t develop talent!

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm

The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:13 pm


While I never say "never," we're in the final two months of the three year MY experiment. There's nothing to learn anymore.

All Muller can do now is mitigate the meltdown when he sees it coming. And it happened again yesterday. Unlike the rest of the game, MY was clearly in a mental space that wasn't in the Gentile Center after the two turnovers. Once that happens, Muller has learned MY is not snapping back anytime soon, especially with just a few seconds left in the game. He's also on record saying the rest of the team takes it's energy from MY, for better or worse. Muller had to take him out yesterday, and his post game comment of putting Jefferson in for his 3-point shooting was clearly a cover.

It's not a dig to say this is who MY is. At least right now, and it's unlikely to change by March.
The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.

Didn’t ask you to buy it! The results speak for themselves! Dan can do no wrong in some people’s eyes! His lack of NCAA bids hasn’t been all lack of talent!

SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:20 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:04 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm


The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.
Also seemed Hawkins and Muller came to some sort of agreement. I don't remember any meltdowns/benchings during DH's final season.
They certainly came to an agreement while on the Summer foreign tour
Only ISU Chess Club can take ISU Basketball where it needs to go
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The Beak
Freshman
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:13 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:42 pm

gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm


The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.

Didn’t ask you to buy it! The results speak for themselves! Dan can do no wrong in some people’s eyes! His lack of NCAA bids hasn’t been all lack of talent!
Let me rephrase: Your statement is false for the reasons I previously listed.

And to add: MY was at the end of the bench in SLU be the end of his sophomore year. Crews didn't know what to do with him either. Having said that: Jackie Carmichael, DeVaughn Akoon-Purcell, MiKyle McIntosh, Tony Wills, Paris Lee (once his mother set him straight) and Daishon Knight among others did well under Muller.

ISU FAN 1
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Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:50 pm

RedbirdSoxFan wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:53 pm
Fayne needs to learn to flop when Krutwig bangs into him. Some of those should have been called offensive fouls.
Have Chastain guard Krutwig. He knows how to flop.

Baltimore Bird
Sophomore
Posts: 220
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:08 pm

Hawkins had a melt down in STL vs Wichita. I believe he was ejected. He was never totally under control either. Winning probably helped that. If he was on a 9-8 team his last year at ISU, I think you would seen many more melt downs and confrontations with the Coach. JMO.
Redbirds and Cardinals, A Combination that Makes Sense! GO BIRDS!

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:15 pm

SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:20 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:04 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm


Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.
Also seemed Hawkins and Muller came to some sort of agreement. I don't remember any meltdowns/benchings during DH's final season.
They certainly came to an agreement while on the Summer foreign tour
:text-+1:

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:18 pm

The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:42 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm


Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.

Didn’t ask you to buy it! The results speak for themselves! Dan can do no wrong in some people’s eyes! His lack of NCAA bids hasn’t been all lack of talent!
Let me rephrase: Your statement is false for the reasons I previously listed.

And to add: MY was at the end of the bench in SLU be the end of his sophomore year. Crews didn't know what to do with him either. Having said that: Jackie Carmichael, DeVaughn Akoon-Purcell, MiKyle McIntosh, Tony Wills, Paris Lee (once his mother set him straight) and Daishon Knight among others did well under Muller.

That’s half the players he coached or recruited! Muller seems to get along well with players that lack talent! I’m not saying everyone on that list isn’t talented either! Muller doesn’t seem to be able to get the most from his most talented players!

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Bird Friend
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Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:51 pm

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:50 pm
RedbirdSoxFan wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:53 pm
Fayne needs to learn to flop when Krutwig bangs into him. Some of those should have been called offensive fouls.
Have Chastain guard Krutwig. He knows how to flop "take a charge".
FTFY
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Tpguy
Sophomore
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:57 pm

The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:13 pm


While I never say "never," we're in the final two months of the three year MY experiment. There's nothing to learn anymore.

All Muller can do now is mitigate the meltdown when he sees it coming. And it happened again yesterday. Unlike the rest of the game, MY was clearly in a mental space that wasn't in the Gentile Center after the two turnovers. Once that happens, Muller has learned MY is not snapping back anytime soon, especially with just a few seconds left in the game. He's also on record saying the rest of the team takes it's energy from MY, for better or worse. Muller had to take him out yesterday, and his post game comment of putting Jefferson in for his 3-point shooting was clearly a cover.

It's not a dig to say this is who MY is. At least right now, and it's unlikely to change by March.
The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.
Hey Beak, consider the source :lol: Not many on this board could blame Muller for Lofton, but this guy above can. :roll:

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 156
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:06 pm

Tpguy wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:57 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:59 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:44 pm


The sad thing is MY isn’t the only player that has been a bad matchup for Muller! Johnny Hill, Zach Lofton, Tyler Brown and Deontae Hawkins are a few that come to mind! It seems Muller has a hard time with talented players! You know it doesn’t always have to be the player. There is enough players here to tell me it may not just be the player that is the issue. It seems to not just be an isolated issue!
Not buying it.

Hill admitted he screwed up. Lofton ... c'mon, he was booted from Minnesota before he even played a game and was at 100 schools in 6 years. Don't know 'bout Brown, but Hawkins had plenty of issues that had nothing to do with Muller.
Hey Beak, consider the source :lol: Not many on this board could blame Muller for Lofton, but this guy above can. :roll:

Again, it’s not the one individual! I’m sure Lofton is a problem player! I’m not saying he is a saint! I am also saying when you have multiple problem children that you recruit...you either have to reassess recruiting these types of players or figure out a way to make it work! Do you have a better idea? I care about winning games! I don’t care about my status on the board!

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Bird Friend
Senior
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:16 pm

gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:18 pm
The Beak wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:42 pm
gobirds72 wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm



Didn’t ask you to buy it! The results speak for themselves! Dan can do no wrong in some people’s eyes! His lack of NCAA bids hasn’t been all lack of talent!
Let me rephrase: Your statement is false for the reasons I previously listed.

And to add: MY was at the end of the bench in SLU be the end of his sophomore year. Crews didn't know what to do with him either. Having said that: Jackie Carmichael, DeVaughn Akoon-Purcell, MiKyle McIntosh, Tony Wills, Paris Lee (once his mother set him straight) and Daishon Knight among others did well under Muller.

That’s half the players he coached or recruited! Muller seems to get along well with players that lack talent! I’m not saying everyone on that list isn’t talented either! Muller doesn’t seem to be able to get the most from his most talented players!
A few points to bring up:
  • The highlighted statement hurts your credibility. It is completely unnecessary to your argument and demonstrates a bias against Muller that you are unwilling to let go.
  • Your comment that "Dan can do no wrong in some people’s eyes!" is a weak argument for your case. It's a sign of emotional frustration that is complicated by your bias against Dan. It also is not what anyone is saying here. Arguing that MY was appropriately pulled from the game is not the same as arguing that Dan never does anything wrong.
  • PLee was MVC POY and Defensive POY. Is that--almost by definition--a sign that Dan can get the most of his most talented players? Or must he bat 1.000 to satisfy your requirement?
  • I believe you're not going to agree with any names The Beak offers, so you might as well just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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User avatar
Chi-bird
Sophomore
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:36 pm

The issue with Muller's recruiting is not the addition of a Hawkins or Yarbrough........I think the issue is is the addition of them without leaders at other positions to balance them out and help get the most out of them.

Tpguy
Sophomore
Posts: 470
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:11 am

good comment chi-bird

another thought, I wonder how many college BB coaches could be named that haven't recruited several problem players, or is it only Dan Muller :roll:

Maybe our resident historian Cpacmel could list about a hundred or so for us. :lol:

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Redbirdwarrior
Junior
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:30 am

I didn't hate this game. Specifically, I loved a few things.

-I LOVED seeing Keyshawn Evans decide to put the second half on his shoulders. Regardless of outcome, I love seeing him play with confidence.

-Matt Chastain. Remember when you all were telling me that Chastain had not really proven that he deserved a scholarship? I do. Well, this kid can flat out ball.

-MY making plays and taking command. The quality of the communication on that Fayne pass is a discussion to have, but it was absolutely the right decision. If he tells Fayne that he is going to lead him away from the defender (I think that is what he was going for), then Fayne is 3 feet from the net 1 on 1 with the ball (with other dude trapped in the half-circle where a charge isn't possible).

-Overcoming bad calls. And boy were there a bunch. Upon watching the replay, I count 5 whistles against the birds for what I see as no reason.

-Tinsley got time. He didn't hit a home run with it, but I think he can have valuable minutes on this team and sitting him 35 minutes a game is mistake.

There were some things i didn't like:

-Love me some Matt Hein, but... bleh. BLEH. A highly motivated D2 player is Matt Hein. If he were on Lewis, he'd be a quality starter. Poor kid just cannot play at this speed. Still, I like him a lot as a person, just would like to see less of him on the floor. If we are running a Point Forward and Evans, there is rarely a reason for Hein to have the ball in his hands.


My biggest notice:

Madison Williams is very missed on this team. We always gave him shit about fouling with hand checks last year, but NOBODY was getting beyond him. He was able to keep the opposing best guard to 5 or 6 points less than they probably would have against anyone else. We no longer have that kind of defender out near the stripe. THAT is one of the things that is killing us.

9-8 is not good for a team with 1 NBA quality player and 2 more European League pros on it, but I wasn't upset with the game. I think ISU ends up 3rd in the league come St. Louis.

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Bird Friend
Senior
Posts: 1819
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:07 am

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:30 am
9-8 is not good for a team with 1 NBA quality player and 2 more European League pros on it, but I wasn't upset with the game. I think ISU ends up 3rd in the league come St. Louis.
Not sure I'd agree with having 1 NBA caliber player . . .
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RedbirdSoxFan
Junior
Posts: 541
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:13 pm

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:30 am
I didn't hate this game. Specifically, I loved a few things.

-I LOVED seeing Keyshawn Evans decide to put the second half on his shoulders. Regardless of outcome, I love seeing him play with confidence.

-Matt Chastain. Remember when you all were telling me that Chastain had not really proven that he deserved a scholarship? I do. Well, this kid can flat out ball.

-MY making plays and taking command. The quality of the communication on that Fayne pass is a discussion to have, but it was absolutely the right decision. If he tells Fayne that he is going to lead him away from the defender (I think that is what he was going for), then Fayne is 3 feet from the net 1 on 1 with the ball (with other dude trapped in the half-circle where a charge isn't possible).

-Overcoming bad calls. And boy were there a bunch. Upon watching the replay, I count 5 whistles against the birds for what I see as no reason.

-Tinsley got time. He didn't hit a home run with it, but I think he can have valuable minutes on this team and sitting him 35 minutes a game is mistake.

There were some things i didn't like:

-Love me some Matt Hein, but... bleh. BLEH. A highly motivated D2 player is Matt Hein. If he were on Lewis, he'd be a quality starter. Poor kid just cannot play at this speed. Still, I like him a lot as a person, just would like to see less of him on the floor. If we are running a Point Forward and Evans, there is rarely a reason for Hein to have the ball in his hands.


My biggest notice:

Madison Williams is very missed on this team. We always gave him shit about fouling with hand checks last year, but NOBODY was getting beyond him. He was able to keep the opposing best guard to 5 or 6 points less than they probably would have against anyone else. We no longer have that kind of defender out near the stripe. THAT is one of the things that is killing us.

9-8 is not good for a team with 1 NBA quality player and 2 more European League pros on it, but I wasn't upset with the game. I think ISU ends up 3rd in the league come St. Louis.
Win all remaining home games and I still like our chances of winning the league.
Lose tomorrow night and it’s the 4/5 game at best in St Louis.

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