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ekeyfanclub
Freshman
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:06 pm

Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:45 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
ekeyfanclub wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:16 pm
Can we stop using completion percentage from practice reports as evidence of anything? They mean absolutely nothing since they lack zero context. Also completion percentage is not a great stat to judge qb play. You can have a ridiculous high completion percentage by throwing nothing but check downs.

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It is simply an indication to consider based on the only 3 scrimmages they reported full stats .. apples to apples and an objective sample size. I provided that in contrast to his first 2 games versus his last 3 games to point out my original concern is now becoming an issue.

If Kolbe were in this funk, many of you would be screaming for him to be benched immediately and you would be right to if situation were reversed. One more easier defense .. then we see how we do against the big 3. Id rather Kolbe had some tune up before those games. Not saying Davis is NOT the future or won't figure it out eventually.. just saying it is more doubtful .. so get Kolbe ready just in case.
Those numbers don't have any relevance though without context. Were they playing against 1st or 2nd team? Who were they throwing to? Was it two minute drill or red zone? How many drops? Were they throwing downfield or throwing check downs? Obviously the numbers meant nothing to the coaching staff as they went with Davis.

I like Kolbe and was content to go into the season with him as the starter, but he has never shown himself to be more than a game manager. Davis at least seems to have the potential to be more. If he keeps struggling than you can go back to Kolbe. Until he starts costing us games though I am fine with Davis as our qb.

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GOP_Redbird
Freshman
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:38 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:37 pm
GOP_Redbird wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:30 pm
How many fumbles does Davis have? Kolbe had at least 20.

Fourth and Short.......E-S-P-N


WRONG!
"at least 20" ? did you just make that number up ?

Fact check .. in 2017, the team had 20 total fumbles, of which we lost 10. Kolbe had just 4 total fumbles, with only 2 were lost fumbles. Broadnax had more fumbles than Kolbe and played maybe 10% of the offensive snaps all year.

Please don't make sh-t up like that and post on public forum ,.. it is very irresponsible.
Alright Pantagraph sports expert...write a book next time.

ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1234
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:25 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:22 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:04 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:26 pm
Also the notion perpetuated by some posters that Kolbe gets sacked a lot for a lot of yards .. for MVFC 2017, we were 5th in Sacks per Game, 2nd lowest in Yards per Sack at 5.5. This with a young banged up OL and weak WR group:

# Team G S Yds Yds/G Yds/S
1 SIU 11 10 54 0.91 5.4
2 WIU 12 22 128 1.83 5.8
3 NDSU 15 22 152 1.47 6.9
4 SDSU 14 23 145 1.64 6.3
5 InSU 11 24 173 2.18 7.2
5 ISU 11 24 133 2.18 5.5
7 MoST 11 25 165 2.27 6.6
8 USD 13 27 149 2.08 5.5
9 UNI 13 32 252 2.46 7.9
10 YSU 11 36 192 3.27 5.3

In 2016, we were around 9th in both of these stats with a better OL .. so yes, as I've acknowledged before, Kolbe struggled in pocket in 2016 despite good passing stats. But he was much improved in pocket in 2017 despite a weak OL.

So the notion that Kolbe took a lot of avoidable sacks last year is wrong.

FYI, our RBs had a lot of trouble getting out of backfield the prior 2 years as well .. here is Negative Yards as % of Total Positive Yards by year ... negative yards are way down this year. Of the 94 this year, 41 came in WIU game.

Years Total Yds Neg. Yards Neg Yd %'
2018 1,084 94 8.7%
2017 2,341 333 14.2%
2016 2,290 408 17.8%

As for Kolbe's contribution to negative yards ...

In 2017, Kolbe had just 122 of the 333 negative yards. In 2016, Kolbe had 289 of the 408 negative yards. Again, our OL was much worse in 2017 ... yet Kolbe did way better in pocket, at same time our RBs had tougher time getting out of backfield. Undoubtedly, Kolbe was avoiding sacks under a lot more duress in 2017 ... and his passing stats suffered.

The debate is, what could he be doing with this years OL, OC, and WR group ... compared to Davis.
How did Kolbe perform statistically regarding the most important stat...wins vs losses as a qb?
You think Davis won that WIU game for us ? Quite the opposite.

And right ... let's ignore all our other 2017 offensive problems with OL WRs and fact that Spack cleaned house on offensive side with coaches. Forget all that ... blame the QB.

Just saying, we should get him reps just in case.
ISU won the game this year vs WIU and Davis was the QB...fact. If Kolbe is the QB in that game ISU likely wins vs WIU but then again maybe not?

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:52 am

Birdswin wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:27 pm
I can help you out Fourth - no Kolbe unless there is an injury, period. End of conversation on the QB.

No one I have seen has mentioned the kicking change - with Bohlken taking over the place kicking duties. Fenlason is still the kickoff guy.
yeah, that thought process makes a lot of sense. :roll:
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fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:48 am

GOP_Redbird wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:38 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:37 pm
GOP_Redbird wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:30 pm
How many fumbles does Davis have? Kolbe had at least 20.

Fourth and Short.......E-S-P-N


WRONG!
"at least 20" ? did you just make that number up ?

Fact check .. in 2017, the team had 20 total fumbles, of which we lost 10. Kolbe had just 4 total fumbles, with only 2 were lost fumbles. Broadnax had more fumbles than Kolbe and played maybe 10% of the offensive snaps all year.

Please don't make sh-t up like that and post on public forum ,.. it is very irresponsible.
Alright Pantagraph sports expert...write a book next time.
You get caught making sh-t up and being dead opposite wrong on your point... and that is your response ???

You have zero credibility.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

GOP_Redbird
Freshman
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:16 pm

Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:13 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:48 am
GOP_Redbird wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:38 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:37 pm


"at least 20" ? did you just make that number up ?

Fact check .. in 2017, the team had 20 total fumbles, of which we lost 10. Kolbe had just 4 total fumbles, with only 2 were lost fumbles. Broadnax had more fumbles than Kolbe and played maybe 10% of the offensive snaps all year.

Please don't make sh-t up like that and post on public forum ,.. it is very irresponsible.
Alright Pantagraph sports expert...write a book next time.
You get caught making sh-t up and being dead opposite wrong on your point... and that is your response ???

You have zero credibility.
Kolbe’s offense put up 7 points vs. SIU last year. Davis ran a fluid offense 35+. What more do you want to have Kolbe play? LOL

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:35 pm

GOP_Redbird wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:13 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:48 am
GOP_Redbird wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:38 pm


Alright Pantagraph sports expert...write a book next time.
You get caught making sh-t up and being dead opposite wrong on your point... and that is your response ???

You have zero credibility.
Kolbe’s offense put up 7 points vs. SIU last year. Davis ran a fluid offense 35+. What more do you want to have Kolbe play? LOL
seriously dude .. that is your argument ??

you're picking an isolated game and then further isolating our problems last year to a single player. you're way too simple and narrow minded to argue this point.

And then immediately after that SIU game last year, Kolbe also led us to big wins over #4 USD (37-21) and #21 YSU (35-0) .. how long you want to go back and forth ?

Last year's offense had many problems ...some games last year looked a lot like WIU and MoST this year

Oh and by the way, since single game comparisons are apparently not a stupid idea . Kolbe beat MoST on road 34-9 ... Davis lost 24-21 to MoST. And Kolbe went 24-32 for 312 yards against MoST last year. Davis was 20-38 for 226 yards ... so theres that one game comparison too ... right genius ???

Credibility falling further.
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SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 823
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Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:27 pm

Less fillimg
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fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm

SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:27 pm
Less fillimg
tastes grate ?
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:27 pm
Less fillimg
tastes grate ?
less liffimg


(BTW, thanks for nothing spell check)
Only ISU Volleyball can take ISU Basketball where it needs to go
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User avatar
BirdGrad2011
Freshman
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:26 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 pm

The board is becoming unbearable. Kolbe had so many chances and pissed them away. He’s a good kid with a good attitude, but Davis is just better. No amount of crying Fourth does will change that.

The fan base likes W’s and Davis gives us the best chance.
Formerly ISUBirds89

User avatar
Redbirdwarrior
Sophomore
Posts: 496
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:01 pm

ISU currently sits at 5-1 and will be t10 through 6 games. If not for a blocked kick, ISU would be 6-0 and probably #2 in the country.

The defense is the best ISU defense in decades, your starting RB is going to be a unanimous 1st team All American and your offense has outscored opponents by a wider margin than anyone of note.

Why are we complaining about anything at all?

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:13 pm

SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:27 pm
Less fillimg
tastes grate ?
less liffimg


(BTW, thanks for nothing spell check)
now you're flip flopping ... :naughty:
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:38 pm

BirdGrad2011 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 pm
The board is becoming unbearable. Kolbe had so many chances and pissed them away. He’s a good kid with a good attitude, but Davis is just better. No amount of crying Fourth does will change that.

The fan base likes W’s and Davis gives us the best chance.
last I checked this is a forum to express opinions and debate merits of certain coaching decisions. It happens all the time from lots of posters ... including last year when some posters "cried" to bench Kolbe in favor of the back-up QB who was touted by several of you as the next Tre Roberson and obvious choice to replace Kolbe last year or this year for sure. So coaches decided to play Broadnax the entire SDSU game with playoff implications on the line ... it was clear, he was no threat to throw. Then a week later, coaches didn't play him at all against NDSU.

I said he wasn't an FCS level QB, and now he's playing Safety .. so were coaches wrong to play him against SDSU .. or were they wrong to not play him again at all against NDSU ? Or were they wrong to string him along for 2 years at QB and then move him to Safety after his 1 game tryout?

Bottom line ... they got it wrong with Broadnax for 2 years, played him 1 game and gave up on him at QB. What did they not see for 2 years that they suddeny saw in 1 game. Point being ... coaches make mistakes and this is a fan forum to express views.

As to current situation ... our offense struggled against MoST and WIU. Got it going against SIU .. a known bad defense. Next we have 3 very good teams coming up, all 3 of which play much better defense than SIU .. in fact, play better defense than MoST and WIU.

I thought it would be smart to get Kolbe some reps just in case.

Feel free to put me on ignore.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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BirdGrad2011
Freshman
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:26 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:02 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:38 pm
BirdGrad2011 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:07 pm
The board is becoming unbearable. Kolbe had so many chances and pissed them away. He’s a good kid with a good attitude, but Davis is just better. No amount of crying Fourth does will change that.

The fan base likes W’s and Davis gives us the best chance.
last I checked this is a forum to express opinions and debate merits of certain coaching decisions. It happens all the time from lots of posters ... including last year when some posters "cried" to bench Kolbe in favor of the back-up QB who was touted by several of you as the next Tre Roberson and obvious choice to replace Kolbe last year or this year for sure. So coaches decided to play Broadnax the entire SDSU game with playoff implications on the line ... it was clear, he was no threat to throw. Then a week later, coaches didn't play him at all against NDSU.

I said he wasn't an FCS level QB, and now he's playing Safety .. so were coaches wrong to play him against SDSU .. or were they wrong to not play him again at all against NDSU ? Or were they wrong to string him along for 2 years at QB and then move him to Safety after his 1 game tryout?

Bottom line ... they got it wrong with Broadnax for 2 years, played him 1 game and gave up on him at QB. What did they not see for 2 years that they suddeny saw in 1 game. Point being ... coaches make mistakes and this is a fan forum to express views.

As to current situation ... our offense struggled against MoST and WIU. Got it going against SIU .. a known bad defense. Next we have 3 very good teams coming up, all 3 of which play much better defense than SIU .. in fact, play better defense than MoST and WIU.

I thought it would be smart to get Kolbe some reps just in case.

Feel free to put me on ignore.
75% of that is irrelevant to anything you quoted. Davis is the best option going forward. Deal with it. You are on par with Zach Lofton’s handlers.

People have quit visiting this portion of the forum because of your nonsense.
Formerly ISUBirds89

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TIMMY
Junior
Posts: 626
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 pm

4th glad you post everything you do. You put a lot into it. Love agreeing with you and disagreeing with you. Never personal from me.
So...
Football.
What they put on tape. Read option. Davis read it and went for what 25? D ends are gonna have to hold their water. Finally.
What they didn't put on tape. Passing offense for the most part. Beathard pretty much shut that down after we got up. That'll expand his call sheet for this coming week.
Play of the game. The interception. Yep my play of the game. Awful pass Davis threw it across his body. That should never ever happen but it did. And Beathard is gonna hit play reverse play reverse in the QB room until it sinks in. I hope to not see that shit again.
Football.
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fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:42 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:15 pm
4th glad you post everything you do. You put a lot into it. Love agreeing with you and disagreeing with you. Never personal from me.
So...
Football.
What they put on tape. Read option. Davis read it and went for what 25? D ends are gonna have to hold their water. Finally.
What they didn't put on tape. Passing offense for the most part. Beathard pretty much shut that down after we got up. That'll expand his call sheet for this coming week.
Play of the game. The interception. Yep my play of the game. Awful pass Davis threw it across his body. That should never ever happen but it did. And Beathard is gonna hit play reverse play reverse in the QB room until it sinks in. I hope to not see that shit again.
Football.
Thanks Timmy .. never personal for me either. Shocking that people argue on fan boards I guess. Just seems like some prefer group think on staying with QB Davis, yet also questioned coaches decision to stay with Kolbe last year ... too ironic.

And I was honestly glad to finally see Davis run the ball couple times and become more of a threat. Just wish we would have pulled it out against WIU and MoST, instead of SIU. Don't know if that was intentional or not .. or just Davis getting comfortable with taking off. Coaches have made and reaffirmed their decision and must live with it now .. the next 3 will be much tougher than SIU.

Now we go to war with the army we have ... Dick Rumsfield quote.
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BirdGrad2011
Freshman
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:26 pm

Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:24 pm

Fourth, are you kidding me? 6-5 and underperforming is the reason people questioned him.

2017 stats: 55.6 completion percentage with 12 TDs to 11 picks.
2018 stats for Brady: 56.4 completion percentage with 14 TDs to 1 pick.

Similar completion rates, but Brady doesn’t turn it over.
Formerly ISUBirds89

SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 823
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:50 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:13 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:35 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:58 pm


tastes grate ?
less liffimg


(BTW, thanks for nothing spell check)
now you're flip flopping ... :naughty:
I tell ya I get no respect
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Only ISU Volleyball can take ISU Basketball where it needs to go
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fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1587
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:36 am

BirdGrad2011 wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:24 pm
Fourth, are you kidding me? 6-5 and underperforming is the reason people questioned him.

2017 stats: 55.6 completion percentage with 12 TDs to 11 picks.
2018 stats for Brady: 56.4 completion percentage with 14 TDs to 1 pick.

Similar completion rates, but Brady doesn’t turn it over.
already acknowledged and argued my point on 2017 results ... a lot went wrong in 2017 .. and Spack fired 4 offensive coaches, we had lost 4.5 OL starters from 2016 plus dealt with 3 OL injuries, endured a bad WR group, and yes Kolbe also had a bad year. I've already fully acknowledged and argued this point ... you want me to dredge up those arguments some more after telling me to stop posting about this ? So you're very late to the party with your limited stats perspective ... right ? And want to pretend Kolbe played last year with this year's coaches and team.

It is a much different team on offense .. coaches and OL alone are vastly improved. Do you believe what you and others are inferring that makes no difference at all ?? That Kolbe should be expected to overcome everyone else deficiencies too ? Spack cleaned house on offense .. no small point here.
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