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In-state athletic budgets..

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Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:15 am

I see some people here complaining that our administration is not growing the athletic program.. But here are the athletic budgets in 2010 and in 2018 of ISU, SIU and NIU which are the 3 biggest programs outside of the Illini (and Northwestern)

ISU.... $15.5M------ $28.1M
SIU.....$23.2M------$20.2M
NIU.... $24.1M------ $25.8M

We have almost doubled the size of the budget, so while the on field/court results have not been as good as we would like to see, the athletic program is being expanded by current leadership which is clearly a positive and hopefully a good sign for the future. We are currently #115 of all NCAA programs, perhaps a goal of top 100 is a good step..
redbirdfan04
Freshman
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:51 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:16 am

Jon99 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:57 pm
MadBird wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:46 am
Jon99 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:51 am
Good win, 10K a decent crowd for non-conference game.. somehow we need to establish the running game, maybe teams will stop stacking the box as much after seeing Davis throw the ball so well..
This isn't a dig at you 99, were you at the game? It sure didn't look on "TV" like there were 10K there. East side looked really sparse, west side too, especially second half. Guy that used my tickets said it was sparse.
m
Jon,
A lot of people have talked about expanding the program, I just don't see the value at this point in moving up to FBS. ISU does not have a donor and or alumni base that has a handful of people that can just dump huge amounts of money into the athletic budget. If that was the case I truly believe someone would have paid for an indoor facility already. Moving up to FBS would be fun and with some luck and great recruiting could put us on the map but the opposite could also happen and deplete our athletics.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:30 am

redbirdfan04 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:16 am
Jon99 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:57 pm
MadBird wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:46 am


This isn't a dig at you 99, were you at the game? It sure didn't look on "TV" like there were 10K there. East side looked really sparse, west side too, especially second half. Guy that used my tickets said it was sparse.
m
Jon,
A lot of people have talked about expanding the program, I just don't see the value at this point in moving up to FBS. ISU does not have a donor and or alumni base that has a handful of people that can just dump huge amounts of money into the athletic budget. If that was the case I truly believe someone would have paid for an indoor facility already. Moving up to FBS would be fun and with some luck and great recruiting could put us on the map but the opposite could also happen and deplete our athletics.
I think FBS needs to be a 10 year goal and with out budget its certainly within reason. The problem to me isn't the money, it is what are the conference options.. Our budget is $28M and the largest MAC budget is Buffalo at $40M, but many are in the $30-35M range, with NIU and Bowling Green actually smaller than ISU..
redbirdfan04
Freshman
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:51 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:42 am

Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:30 am
redbirdfan04 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:16 am
Jon99 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:57 pm


m
Jon,
A lot of people have talked about expanding the program, I just don't see the value at this point in moving up to FBS. ISU does not have a donor and or alumni base that has a handful of people that can just dump huge amounts of money into the athletic budget. If that was the case I truly believe someone would have paid for an indoor facility already. Moving up to FBS would be fun and with some luck and great recruiting could put us on the map but the opposite could also happen and deplete our athletics.
I think FBS needs to be a 10 year goal and with out budget its certainly within reason. The problem to me isn't the money, it is what are the conference options.. Our budget is $28M and the largest MAC budget is Buffalo at $40M, but many are in the $30-35M range, with NIU and Bowling Green actually smaller than ISU..
That is interesting, I did not know we had a larger budget than NIU and other MAC schools. I imagine there are so many other variables that would go into this. To be honest, as a fan I enjoy being in the MVFC. Most of the away games are great and have pretty good fan bases. The level of competition is high. I am really excited to play at U of I and Wisconsin the next few years.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:58 am

These are 2018 number in millions of dollars

ISU- 28

Buffalo- 40
Central Michigan- 39
Western Michigan- 36
Miami- 36
Akron- 34
Ohio 33
Toledo- 33
EMU- 28
Kent St 28
Ball St 28
NIU- 25
Bowling Green 24

CUSA and Sun Belt schools also in that 24-40 range, with Old Dominion being the exception at 44..

And with the way our athletic budget is growing and hopefully continues to expand, be nice to be in that 35 area in the next 5 years so if FBS is an option, we are in that same zipcode...
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2288
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:06 am

Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:58 am
These are 2018 number in millions of dollars

ISU- 28

Buffalo- 40
Central Michigan- 39
Western Michigan- 36
Miami- 36
Akron- 34
Ohio 33
Toledo- 33
EMU- 28
Kent St 28
Ball St 28
NIU- 25
Bowling Green 24

CUSA and Sun Belt schools also in that 24-40 range, with Old Dominion being the exception at 44..

And with the way our athletic budget is growing and hopefully continues to expand, be nice to be in that 35 area in the next 5 years so if FBS is an option, we are in that same zipcode...
But how much is budgeted for football vs all other sports. My guess is we would drop considerably if we looked at football only budgets compared to same MAC schools.
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Redbirdwarrior
Junior
Posts: 654
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm

Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:00 pm

People must stop looking at the wins and losses of the football and men's basketball teams as all of your results.

Look at the investment in and development of:

Baseball
Softball
Women's Volleyball
Track and Field
Women's Basketball
Men's and Women's Soccer
Golf
Swim/Dive
Gymnastics

Since 2010, we have made MASSIVE infrastructural investments in Redbirds Arena, Hancock Stadium, Duffy Bass and Weibring Golf Course.

Top to bottom, ISU's athletic department is growing exactly the right way- with stability in mind. You don't see a budget of 28 Mil where 21 of it is sent to a single team. You see investment being made across the board and are, in fact, seeing results. Hell, you can literally see the difference in the football program by standing across the street from Hancock now. You can see the investment in golf by standing on the first tee.

I love it. Especially as so many Illinois colleges are being forces to dial back athletics in general, we are growing smartly.
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:10 pm

Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:00 pm
People must stop looking at the wins and losses of the football and men's basketball teams as all of your results.

Look at the investment in and development of:

Baseball
Softball
Women's Volleyball
Track and Field
Women's Basketball
Men's and Women's Soccer
Golf
Swim/Dive
Gymnastics

Since 2010, we have made MASSIVE infrastructural investments in Redbirds Arena, Hancock Stadium, Duffy Bass and Weibring Golf Course.

Top to bottom, ISU's athletic department is growing exactly the right way- with stability in mind. You don't see a budget of 28 Mil where 21 of it is sent to a single team. You see investment being made across the board and are, in fact, seeing results. Hell, you can literally see the difference in the football program by standing across the street from Hancock now. You can see the investment in golf by standing on the first tee.

I love it. Especially as so many Illinois colleges are being forces to dial back athletics in general, we are growing smartly.
Your model of success may apply to d2 and d3 athletics but is not the measuring stick most would use for d1 athletics. Maybe that explains the men’s basketball, football and the athletic department financial results (funded via subsidy) at ISU.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:36 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:10 pm
Redbirdwarrior wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:00 pm
People must stop looking at the wins and losses of the football and men's basketball teams as all of your results.

Look at the investment in and development of:

Baseball
Softball
Women's Volleyball
Track and Field
Women's Basketball
Men's and Women's Soccer
Golf
Swim/Dive
Gymnastics

Since 2010, we have made MASSIVE infrastructural investments in Redbirds Arena, Hancock Stadium, Duffy Bass and Weibring Golf Course.

Top to bottom, ISU's athletic department is growing exactly the right way- with stability in mind. You don't see a budget of 28 Mil where 21 of it is sent to a single team. You see investment being made across the board and are, in fact, seeing results. Hell, you can literally see the difference in the football program by standing across the street from Hancock now. You can see the investment in golf by standing on the first tee.

I love it. Especially as so many Illinois colleges are being forces to dial back athletics in general, we are growing smartly.
Your model of success may apply to d2 and d3 athletics but is not the measuring stick most would use for d1 athletics. Maybe that explains the men’s basketball, football and the athletic department financial results (funded via subsidy) at ISU.
Since 2010 the budget has increased by about $13 million, student fees have made up about $1.5M of that or about 12% of the increase.. How many other D1 schools have increased their athletic budget by nearly 50% since 2010???

I like the model we are using, much more sustainable than the school in Dekalb, who is throwing all of their resources into football so they can play in a no name bowl game against some Sun Belt or CUSA team.. We draw as many for volleyball as they do for mens basketball, and there is a lot to be said about that..

We are heading in the right direction, every aspect of the school and community around the school are improving.. its a great time to be a Redbird!!
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:45 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:06 am
Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:58 am
These are 2018 number in millions of dollars

ISU- 28

Buffalo- 40
Central Michigan- 39
Western Michigan- 36
Miami- 36
Akron- 34
Ohio 33
Toledo- 33
EMU- 28
Kent St 28
Ball St 28
NIU- 25
Bowling Green 24

CUSA and Sun Belt schools also in that 24-40 range, with Old Dominion being the exception at 44..

And with the way our athletic budget is growing and hopefully continues to expand, be nice to be in that 35 area in the next 5 years so if FBS is an option, we are in that same zipcode...
But how much is budgeted for football vs all other sports. My guess is we would drop considerably if we looked at football only budgets compared to same MAC schools.
No idea, obviously NIU is a school that is throwing everything into football and ignoring the other sports.. I think many others their football budget isn't that much more than ours, within a few million dollars..
normalbird
Freshman
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:12 pm

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:42 pm

As usual, fourth is spot on. ISU has traditionally spread the athletic budget across all sports in a more equitable way than most other schools. The more valuable comparison would be football budget to football budget. I suspect this would show that most schools with a $28MM overall athletic budget like ours spend considerably more on football than we do.
Humdinger
Senior
Posts: 1668
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Mon Sep 23, 2019 10:20 pm

Jon99 wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:36 pm
Since 2010 the budget has increased by about $13 million, student fees have made up about $1.5M of that or about 12% of the increase.
That's quite interesting.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:04 am

normalbird wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:42 pm
As usual, fourth is spot on. ISU has traditionally spread the athletic budget across all sports in a more equitable way than most other schools. The more valuable comparison would be football budget to football budget. I suspect this would show that most schools with a $28MM overall athletic budget like ours spend considerably more on football than we do.
While not keeping the fan base happy at times because the focus is on football, its the right way to build an athletic program. Even putting my feelings about the NIU board members aside, it doesn't take a genius to realize that overall we are the more attractive school to a conference when compared to the Huskes, but at some point we need to ball up and move into FBS football. I think it would excite the fan base, help the school with marketing to new students. And as long as we have the right coaches in place, we would quickly pass NIU as the #3 football program in the state.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am

I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined... congrats to them for having competitive football on a shoe string budget..
Crabby
Freshman
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:35 am

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:07 am

Read this a few years back. It's a bit of a tough read, but it does a very deep dive into athletic budgets, and what the football programs mean to the schools overall. Very interesting book.

Saturday Millionaires: How Winning Football Builds Winning Colleges

ISUBU
Sophomore
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:33 pm

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:33 am

Never read that book, but Notre Dame is the university it is due to football.
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:47 am

ISU is on a huge upswing and has momentum, now is the time to take advantage of it and expand the athletic program.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1610
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:30 pm

As much as I want ISU to go FBS, I don't think it is remotely possible any time soon. It's great that ISU has a decent overall budget compared to the MAC schools (those budgets are half as much as schools in the American Conference, where ISU should be looking to join).

However, ISU can't just jump into FBS right now without a huge infusion of cash. It's going to take $50 to $75 million dollars to upgrade the football program to get it where it needs to be to make the move.

As much as I give Lyons a hard time, unless there is serious backing from the University (Dietz) they aren't going anywhere.
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1950
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:18 pm

Jon99 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:09 am
I also find it interesting that our athletic budget is more than WIU and EIU combined

Why is that interesting? ISU athletics , like EIU and WIU athletics, funds its operations predominantly via subsidy from the students and university verses being mostly or fully independent of the university. ISU athletic subsidy amount is 69 percent and EIU and wiu are 71 and 69 percent respectively. Given we have more than their enrollments combined it makes sense we have more than their athletic athletic department revenue combined
Jon99
Freshman
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:22 am

Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:28 pm

ricohill wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 12:30 pm
As much as I want ISU to go FBS, I don't think it is remotely possible any time soon. It's great that ISU has a decent overall budget compared to the MAC schools (those budgets are half as much as schools in the American Conference, where ISU should be looking to join).

However, ISU can't just jump into FBS right now without a huge infusion of cash. It's going to take $50 to $75 million dollars to upgrade the football program to get it where it needs to be to make the move.

As much as I give Lyons a hard time, unless there is serious backing from the University (Dietz) they aren't going anywhere.
The AAC will never take an FCS school, we will have to get into a bottom bucket FBS conference (MAC, CUSA) and then upgrade.. and really, its insane that this states #2 public school isn't in the AAC ..
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