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"Indoor Facility ... #1 priority" ... AD Larry Lyons

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TIMMY
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Location: 1050 W Addison

Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:12 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:51 am
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:50 pm
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:08 pm
Just curious what other FBS and FCS teams do not have indoor facilities?
Good question. Don't have the time to figure it out but I do know this.

Column A: North Dakota State, Northern Iowa and South Dakota all play in domes. South Dakota State and Youngstown State have indoor practice facilities.

Column B: Illinois State, along with Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois and Indiana State currently don't have indoor practice facilities. :oops:

That's our completion year in and year out so it's all that really matters.
so just look at your split of MVFC teams ... now roughly count the number of playoff appearances over say last 10 years in your column A versus your column B ... first noting, USD is weakest link in your column A and ISUr is strongest link in your column B, then maybe WIU. Putting aside the obvious factor (cold vs colder climates), you just perfectly divided the league into upper half and lower half of performers over last 10 seasons.

Coincidence ? I think not.
And you know 4th it's pretty easy to break it down even more. Who we chasing really? Until we catch and pass NDSU nothing else really matters. You gotta compete with, and beat NDSU. Everything goes through them. Hell they've got 7 Illinois and 11 Wisconsin kids on their roster. How many were we after? Beats me. But if an IPF doesn't matter why has it become a multi-million dollar arms race to have the best?

Of topic sorta but II was at Northwestern last week. Holy Christmas Trees is that building beautiful.
tjbison
Freshman
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Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:36 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:57 am
tjbison wrote:
Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:44 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:50 pm

Good question. Don't have the time to figure it out but I do know this.

Column A: North Dakota State, Northern Iowa and South Dakota all play in domes. South Dakota State and Youngstown State have indoor practice facilities.

Column B: Illinois State, along with Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois and Indiana State currently don't have indoor practice facilities. :oops:

That's our completion year in and year out so it's all that really matters.
We technically have an Inflatable bubble they put up in the late fall over the Soccer field (our old FB stadium used to be there)

The Turf and Grass FB practice fields are in the works to be replaced with a new IPF.

https://spark.adobe.com/page/lssl2Kbdld4hA/?red=a

Also UND who will be joining in 2 years has a IPF already in Place
TJBison .. welcome to Redbird Nation forum. That looks great obviously, guessing it wil benefit other sports more than football, since you already have an indoor facility .. but still nice to have another multipurpose facility.

I've been to Fargodone ... that was a great (big and convenient) parking lot you are losing right in front of the entrance to your stadium ... can imagine those were premium spots for tailgating, which probably generated lot of revenue. Were there strong objections to this from donors who used those spaces ??

And how are you feeling about your QB position ... who do you thinkg is going to emerge ?
The new IPF will not be near the Dome, it will sit on the current outdoor practice fields so no loss for parking

As for QB, it should be a good battle with Trey Lance our Freshman from MN, too QB in 2018 class from MN and our Iowa St transfer Zeb Nolan

I have a feeling Trey will emerge in the lead position just because he had a year to learn our system under Easton Stick
fourthandshort
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Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:44 pm

Virginarb ... all documented with links here .. see first page for link to video of AD Lyons publicly committing to IPF if we hit then 150m .. said ok t was #1 priority for athletics.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
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Virginia Redbird
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Sat Sep 14, 2019 8:20 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:44 pm
Virginarb ... all documented with links here .. see first page for link to video of AD Lyons publicly committing to IPF if we hit then 150m .. said ok t was #1 priority for athletics.
Thanks fourth. I thought I recalled the discussion but could not remember for certain. At the best it seems misleading. Not the way to ensure confidence in the people that are willing to donate.
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden
Redbirds100
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Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:14 pm

Coaches Show Tonight, it was good show and had Brady Davis as special guest. I learned He only has one class to graduate.
I asked the about Indoor Training facility, He said "Larry spoke to Him this week and it's gaining traction". That's all He said.

Another question was about paying NCAA athletes, He said it's a horrible idea and will put many programs out of business. It's amateur athletes...

They had good practices and are confident going into Saturdays Game...
fourthandshort
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:05 am

Redbirds100 wrote:
Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:14 pm
Coaches Show Tonight, it was good show and had Brady Davis as special guest. I learned He only has one class to graduate.
I asked the about Indoor Training facility, He said "Larry spoke to Him this week and it's gaining traction". That's all He said.

Another question was about paying NCAA athletes, He said it's a horrible idea and will put many programs out of business. It's amateur athletes...

They had good practices and are confident going into Saturdays Game...
uh .. so let's beat the Bison this week and get more traction on the IPF fund raising !!!!!

100% Agree with Davis on paying college student athletes .. it is a really dumb idea in any form, except for things like carefully regulated work-studies or COA stipends.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
Redbirds100
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am

It was Coach Spack against paying college athetes, it will put division 3 out of business.

Let's go Beat the Bison!!!! See you all at the tailgate!!!!
fourthandshort
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:04 am

Redbirds100 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am
It was Coach Spack against paying college athetes, it will put division 3 out of business.

Let's go Beat the Bison!!!! See you all at the tailgate!!!!
got it .. well it will do harm to way more than the D-III teams. It iis going to creat huge advantages with some very select programs and in some very select metro areas ... which means disadvantages for everyone else. I mean seriously ....picture a car dealer and what they would be willing to do on this front. It is rediculously stupid what CA just did ... and I lean moderately left politically.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
MadBird
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:33 am

Redbirds100 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:19 am
It was Coach Spack against paying college athetes, it will put division 3 out of business.

Let's go Beat the Bison!!!! See you all at the tailgate!!!!
Seems like it would be tough on D III, on its face, but you know, how is the "amount" of payment determined? Based on the revenue the school brings in? If DIII schools bring in less revenue, from attendance and media, etc., stands to reason there's less money to spread around to the players. If you play at Michigan or Ohio State, you get to make a lot of money. At WIU or EIU or ISU, less. At IWU or Eureka, etc even less, barely anything.

I stand by my long held theory - the answer to this dilemma is to get the money out of amateur sports, not figger out how to spread it around to more people (ie. athletes). Let them work like other students, cut back their required commitment to practice and weight lifting, etc. allow them to go pro out of HS - all sports - and let the pro sports train them like baseball and to some degree hockey do.
BirdFan10
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:52 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:04 am

got it .. well it will do harm to way more than the D-III teams. It iis going to creat huge advantages with some very select programs and in some very select metro areas ... which means disadvantages for everyone else. I mean seriously ....picture a car dealer and what they would be willing to do on this front. It is rediculously stupid what CA just did ... and I lean moderately left politically.
I'm huge Redbird supporter and generally enjoy college athletics.

However, why should I care if programs are put out of business because they can't afford to pay people what they are worth?

There is already money going into players pockets at all the big schools. To think otherwise is because you are willingly blind to it.
fourthandshort
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 11:42 am

BirdFan10 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:52 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 10:04 am

got it .. well it will do harm to way more than the D-III teams. It iis going to creat huge advantages with some very select programs and in some very select metro areas ... which means disadvantages for everyone else. I mean seriously ....picture a car dealer and what they would be willing to do on this front. It is rediculously stupid what CA just did ... and I lean moderately left politically.
I'm huge Redbird supporter and generally enjoy college athletics.

However, why should I care if programs are put out of business because they can't afford to pay people what they are worth?

There is already money going into players pockets at all the big schools. To think otherwise is because you are willingly blind to it.
Because it is college sports, not professional sports. Do we stop there, or let it eventually trickle into HS sports ... imagine what club/travel teams could do to corrupt a HS kid ? So do we stop at college when it comes to paying studenta-athletes ? If so, on what basis do you stop there ?

Bringing more money for student-athletes into the equation will ruin intercollegiate sports. It is a stupid idea and will only further distract and corrupt the student-athletes mind .. then imagine how an 18 year old left to their own devices will shift their thinking ... priorities, loyalties. We already have players opting out of bowl games because they don't want to hurt their draft potential. We had the stud LB from Ohio St elect to sit out the season with an injury he should have been able to return from. Yes, it is their choice ... but allowing money into the equation will only make it worse.

If someone wants to do it this way .. tell them to start their own semi-pro/minor league .... good luck. They'll never have the success that colleges have .. like drawing 100k on a saturday afternoon. Why ... because it is the college campus that draws everyone to this game ... they made all the investments and took all the risks. The players get full schollies and chance to keep playin AND AND AND get a college degree, plus room & board for 4-5 years for free ... and tax free on top of it.

How about we start with this .. make all the athletes pay income taxes on their scholarship money .. .then see how they feel about being paid like employees.

Just a stupid idea .. go start your own smie-pro league and watch it fail.

p.s. sorry for rant, but I just hate what this will do to college sports and what it will do to corrupt the student-athlete.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
BirdFan10
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:29 pm

I believe people should be paid what it's worth.

I find it odd that student athletics is a thing at all. Why should it be? It's become successful and gives people pride and all that. I like that it gives me something to connect me to ISU all these years later.

I wouldn't mind if we remove high school sports and make it club based. MLS teams are doing right now for soccer having academies and training kids. I wouldn't care if all sports had similar functions of teams having kids in their system from the beginning.

I guess I don't see having to preserve a structure that is flawed because that's the way we do things now. Even if the talent would change I believe a more fair system would be to have a semi pro league and unpaid college athletes. However, as you said that would fail because people have connection to their school and no connection to a brand new team with no history.
MadBird
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:12 pm

BirdFan10 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:29 pm
I believe people should be paid what it's worth.

I find it odd that student athletics is a thing at all. Why should it be? It's become successful and gives people pride and all that. I like that it gives me something to connect me to ISU all these years later.

I wouldn't mind if we remove high school sports and make it club based. MLS teams are doing right now for soccer having academies and training kids. I wouldn't care if all sports had similar functions of teams having kids in their system from the beginning.

I guess I don't see having to preserve a structure that is flawed because that's the way we do things now. Even if the talent would change I believe a more fair system would be to have a semi pro league and unpaid college athletes. However, as you said that would fail because people have connection to their school and no connection to a brand new team with no history.
Yes, but . . . . . I'm not so sure "minor league" sports would fail, I mean, minor league and even college summer league baseball are relative successes, attendance-wise, junior league hockey and minor league hockey too, there's a "minor league" golf tour, so there's no reason to think that if the structure was changed that the fans wouldn't follow, eventually. I'm not sure of my ground here, but hasn't Notre Dame and Michigan and Ohio State, etc. been packing the fans in since the "old days" before money got all involved? Take the money away and don't fans still turn out for old alma mater?
fourthandshort
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:06 pm

BirdFan10 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:29 pm
I believe people should be paid what it's worth.

I find it odd that student athletics is a thing at all. Why should it be? It's become successful and gives people pride and all that. I like that it gives me something to connect me to ISU all these years later.

I wouldn't mind if we remove high school sports and make it club based. MLS teams are doing right now for soccer having academies and training kids. I wouldn't care if all sports had similar functions of teams having kids in their system from the beginning.

I guess I don't see having to preserve a structure that is flawed because that's the way we do things now. Even if the talent would change I believe a more fair system would be to have a semi pro league and unpaid college athletes. However, as you said that would fail because people have connection to their school and no connection to a brand new team with no history.
So what is the going rate for a good college wrestler worth at D-II level ... 1st string, 2nd string, etc ? How about at FCS and FBS level ? How about a great one ? Or a mediocre one ? Or one that gets injured this year ... how much does he get next year ? Or if you recruit a better one, do you have to take money from the older r ijnured one next year to have enough to pay the new yound stud next year ? Can you cut a player just to save money ?

How about men's tennis .. your 3rd best player this year ? Is it more than your 4th best player this year ? And how does that compare to your 3rd best women's player this year? Or does all the money go to the money sports ... men's football and basketball ?

Seriously ... what sets the going rate for every player and in every sport .. men's and women's .. FR, SO, JR, and SRs ... some injured and some healthy ??

Can they cut or demote a player based on performance in middle of year ? Take away their paycheck or cut it in half ?

Oh ... and where does all this money come from ?? Now picture how that would impact recruiting ... how many car dealers can offer a stud player a car ? Can the player let his family "borrow" one of those cars ?

What could possibly go wrong with money involved ???

And good luck focusing on your homework and next exam, when youre so worried about losing your paycheck !!
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
fourthandshort
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Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:37 pm

MadBird wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:12 pm
BirdFan10 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:29 pm
I believe people should be paid what it's worth.

I find it odd that student athletics is a thing at all. Why should it be? It's become successful and gives people pride and all that. I like that it gives me something to connect me to ISU all these years later.

I wouldn't mind if we remove high school sports and make it club based. MLS teams are doing right now for soccer having academies and training kids. I wouldn't care if all sports had similar functions of teams having kids in their system from the beginning.

I guess I don't see having to preserve a structure that is flawed because that's the way we do things now. Even if the talent would change I believe a more fair system would be to have a semi pro league and unpaid college athletes. However, as you said that would fail because people have connection to their school and no connection to a brand new team with no history.
Yes, but . . . . . I'm not so sure "minor league" sports would fail, I mean, minor league and even college summer league baseball are relative successes, attendance-wise, junior league hockey and minor league hockey too, there's a "minor league" golf tour, so there's no reason to think that if the structure was changed that the fans wouldn't follow, eventually. I'm not sure of my ground here, but hasn't Notre Dame and Michigan and Ohio State, etc. been packing the fans in since the "old days" before money got all involved? Take the money away and don't fans still turn out for old alma mater?
Have you ever seen one of those leagues draw 100k fans on a saturday to an otherwise small town ? or make the front page of the sports section for winning a big regular season game ? and do this year after year no matter what players happen to be on the roster in a given year.

Nobody talks about those leagues outside of a very small local base. If they did, it would make ESPN headlines and front page of sports section. And it would get major endorsement money thrown at them.

The college campus and their 100 year history is why the college sports are so successful. It is also why they are able to fund so many sports that clearly do NOT make money and would never exist in any other environment. This is all a very good thing ... it just needs to be left alone in terms of throwing money at the student athletes. There is no practical way to this ... and money will ruin it.

Ironically, I wold bet a lot money that most student-athletes would say college sports is a very good thing ... not perfect, but a very good thing .. for both players and the schools.

Yet were trying to change something that clearly is successful and think it will somehow help.

Only 1% of all college athletes will play professional sports. Furthermore, just 2% of D-I athletes will play professionally ... so why on earth would a college pay a student-athlete any more than the scholarship money (25-40k per year tax free) to obtain the degree that will help employ the remaining 98% of the D-I athletes and 99% of all college athletes.

So 99% of all college athletes are getting a pretty good deal already at 25-40k per year tax free .... and a degree to help them get a real job .. if they bothered to focus on academics while in college.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
MadBird
Junior
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Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:35 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:37 pm
MadBird wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:12 pm
BirdFan10 wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 12:29 pm
I believe people should be paid what it's worth.

I find it odd that student athletics is a thing at all. Why should it be? It's become successful and gives people pride and all that. I like that it gives me something to connect me to ISU all these years later.

I wouldn't mind if we remove high school sports and make it club based. MLS teams are doing right now for soccer having academies and training kids. I wouldn't care if all sports had similar functions of teams having kids in their system from the beginning.

I guess I don't see having to preserve a structure that is flawed because that's the way we do things now. Even if the talent would change I believe a more fair system would be to have a semi pro league and unpaid college athletes. However, as you said that would fail because people have connection to their school and no connection to a brand new team with no history.
Yes, but . . . . . I'm not so sure "minor league" sports would fail, I mean, minor league and even college summer league baseball are relative successes, attendance-wise, junior league hockey and minor league hockey too, there's a "minor league" golf tour, so there's no reason to think that if the structure was changed that the fans wouldn't follow, eventually. I'm not sure of my ground here, but hasn't Notre Dame and Michigan and Ohio State, etc. been packing the fans in since the "old days" before money got all involved? Take the money away and don't fans still turn out for old alma mater?
Have you ever seen one of those leagues draw 100k fans on a saturday to an otherwise small town ? or make the front page of the sports section for winning a big regular season game ? and do this year after year no matter what players happen to be on the roster in a given year.

Nobody talks about those leagues outside of a very small local base. If they did, it would make ESPN headlines and front page of sports section. And it would get major endorsement money thrown at them.

The college campus and their 100 year history is why the college sports are so successful. It is also why they are able to fund so many sports that clearly do NOT make money and would never exist in any other environment. This is all a very good thing ... it just needs to be left alone in terms of throwing money at the student athletes. There is no practical way to this ... and money will ruin it.

Ironically, I wold bet a lot money that most student-athletes would say college sports is a very good thing ... not perfect, but a very good thing .. for both players and the schools.

Yet were trying to change something that clearly is successful and think it will somehow help.

Only 1% of all college athletes will play professional sports. Furthermore, just 2% of D-I athletes will play professionally ... so why on earth would a college pay a student-athlete any more than the scholarship money (25-40k per year tax free) to obtain the degree that will help employ the remaining 98% of the D-I athletes and 99% of all college athletes.

So 99% of all college athletes are getting a pretty good deal already at 25-40k per year tax free .... and a degree to help them get a real job .. if they bothered to focus on academics while in college.
My thinking is that the universities would continue to draw 100K or maybe it goes down to 75K or whatever, and the "minor league" teams would draw some number maybe in the thousands here or there, but enough to be "successful". So AAA baseball has some very successful teams in markets like Memphis and Albuquerque and Des Moines and Charlotte, etc.and the teams get front page news and stories on the local TV and radio, and if they had minor league football in those cities they would do well. The summer league baseball does very well in Madison, and pretty well in several other places.

So I'm arguing for not throwing money at students, that like you say almost all of the kids would continue to come to play for old alma mater, that there would be minor league teams out there with support from whichever major league we're talking about (mostly football right?) that would be successful in whichever places they went.
Bender
Freshman
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:25 pm

Fourth, I feel like you are missing the intention of the California law that is bringing the paying of college athletes to the forefront of sports discussions. The law doesn't state that colleges will be able to pay their players in any sport. It gives the players the freedom to go out and earn money for their name, image, or likeness (NIL). When you mention what each player in each sport is worth, what you should be asking is what does each player think their NIL is worth to a business.

The law firm Kennyhertz Perry had a great look at what the law could lead to:
By using the term “tethered to education” in its release, it’s clear that any NIL rules proposed by the NCAA will attempt to fit within the Ninth Circuit’s O’Bannon decision. As a result, it’s highly unlikely that the NCAA will propose a plan where athletes can be paid directly by third parties (such as for appearing in a commercial or signing autographs) or are automatically entitled to cash payments that they can access after they leave school. Doing so would contradict the O’Bannon appellate decision and put its precedential value at risk. More likely is a plan where athletes may engage in activities where they are paid for the use of their NIL, but any money earned is put into a fund that can be accessed as a result of meeting specified academic benchmarks, such as maintaining a certain GPA, meeting yearly academic progress requirements, or graduating.
https://kennyhertzperry.com/ncaa-to-exa ... -likeness/

I think what's in the quote above would be the best option for a solution. Allow the players to work and earn money for their NIL. Then the school can give the players the money they earned from their various deals that they had during their time in school. Have the payouts be per semester as long as they have a certain GPA or have the payout be tied to graduating and earning their degree. Once they get that money it should be income and taxed as such.
CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 1128
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Fri Oct 04, 2019 5:31 pm

If this topples the NCAA’s ivory tower, then I’m all for it.
fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 2142
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:09 pm

Bender wrote:
Fri Oct 04, 2019 4:25 pm
Fourth, I feel like you are missing the intention of the California law that is bringing the paying of college athletes to the forefront of sports discussions. The law doesn't state that colleges will be able to pay their players in any sport. It gives the players the freedom to go out and earn money for their name, image, or likeness (NIL). When you mention what each player in each sport is worth, what you should be asking is what does each player think their NIL is worth to a business.

The law firm Kennyhertz Perry had a great look at what the law could lead to:
By using the term “tethered to education” in its release, it’s clear that any NIL rules proposed by the NCAA will attempt to fit within the Ninth Circuit’s O’Bannon decision. As a result, it’s highly unlikely that the NCAA will propose a plan where athletes can be paid directly by third parties (such as for appearing in a commercial or signing autographs) or are automatically entitled to cash payments that they can access after they leave school. Doing so would contradict the O’Bannon appellate decision and put its precedential value at risk. More likely is a plan where athletes may engage in activities where they are paid for the use of their NIL, but any money earned is put into a fund that can be accessed as a result of meeting specified academic benchmarks, such as maintaining a certain GPA, meeting yearly academic progress requirements, or graduating.
https://kennyhertzperry.com/ncaa-to-exa ... -likeness/

I think what's in the quote above would be the best option for a solution. Allow the players to work and earn money for their NIL. Then the school can give the players the money they earned from their various deals that they had during their time in school. Have the payouts be per semester as long as they have a certain GPA or have the payout be tied to graduating and earning their degree. Once they get that money it should be income and taxed as such.
Yes, I get the CA law only allows for players to be paid for anyone that uses their likeness in any way. BUt I think this opens the door to playing players .. one way or another. So yes, I got carried away with my argument .. sorry .. but once you open this door, it only opens wider from that point on. Obviously, I think it's bad idea no matter what form paying student-athletes takes.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!
GhostofMBA
Freshman
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:33 pm

Fri Oct 04, 2019 9:01 pm

@Bender :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
We already have academic fraud, (Players from Florida State cannot read past the third grade level) this will only make it worse. And then what happens if the money is tied to graduating and the player does not?

@Fourthandshort :lol: , think about what your wrote: "So 99% of all college athletes are getting a pretty good deal already at 25-40k per year tax free .... and a degree to help them get a real job .. if they bothered to focus on academics while in college."

Hence why I am in favor of doing away with sports associated with tax payer funded institutions at all levels. College athletics has lost its way and we have people who either do not really want to go to a college or are not built for college attending colleges for reasons other than the focus on academics.

I agree with Calibird, pay 'em all and let it burn.

StarTrucking is just waiting to get back into the saddle of paying BU players for their NILs :lol: (Didn't StarTrucking go out of business? - been too long, don't care)
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