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OT: Special to TIMMY - WTF?

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MadBird
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:24 pm

I couldn't resist posting this TIMMY, thought of you right away. What is this all about!!!??? :lol:
South Dakota State’s Split Mid-Zone Concept: In order to run the ball effectively in the highly competitive Missouri Valley Conference, where four of the top 10 defense units at the FCS level reside, it became necessary to find ways to get uber disciplined second level defenders to misfit base zone concepts. As revealed in an exclusive X&O Labs clinic report, South Dakota State University found its answer in mixing its Mid-Zone run with divide zone (swipe) action. The wider aiming point for the back prevented LBs from back gapping like they would in traditional divide zones and the possibility of the ball cutting back prevented defensive linemen from “lagging” on the full zone blocking scheme. After toying with the concept in 2018, the Jackrabbits majored in it this season where it assisted in accounting for 200 yards on the ground per game. Offensive line coach and offensive coordinator Jason Eck details how he meshes the blocking scheme and how he formations the play in continually finding ways to gut the defense. Get this exclusive report sent directly to your email at 7 am EST Tuesday morning. This is a FREE service from X&O Labs. Go here to register your email.
Let Total Red, fourthandshort, and the rest of us know when the chalk talk will convene!! :D
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TIMMY
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:32 pm

On split zone or zone read, inside zone whatever Oline takes a lateral step playside on the snap of the ball. (steps where the play is going). So your back takes the ball heading playside, sees a crease and plants his foot almost like a cutback to head upfield. Defenses have gotten really good a sneaking an extra guy into the box post snap to take away the cutback. So what SDSU is doing is using their H back to block back the other way almost like a lineman trapping to take away the creeping defender.

I like it out of a 3x1 (trips) set with the H lined up like a wing to the trips side. Easy for him to block back but also easy to throw or run regular zone and zone read. You can also run a nice RPO to the 1 receiver( weak) side. If the QB sees that weakside (overhang) guy start to creep into the box He can replace him with the ball which means throw the slant to the weakside receiver.

What I like is you can throw, run power, run zone, or an RPO all out of the same set. So either the defense will play it honest and get gashed or sneak that extra defender into the box leaving them very vulnerable to an RPO.

I hope that explains it OK and I hope TR doesn't get mad at me for using too much jargon.
The FOE feature is easily accessible on the top line of your User Control Panel. :D
fourthandshort
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:05 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:32 pm
On split zone or zone read, inside zone whatever Oline takes a lateral step playside on the snap of the ball. (steps where the play is going). So your back takes the ball heading playside, sees a crease and plants his foot almost like a cutback to head upfield. Defenses have gotten really good a sneaking an extra guy into the box post snap to take away the cutback. So what SDSU is doing is using their H back to block back the other way almost like a lineman trapping to take away the creeping defender.

I like it out of a 3x1 (trips) set with the H lined up like a wing to the trips side. Easy for him to block back but also easy to throw or run regular zone and zone read. You can also run a nice RPO to the 1 receiver( weak) side. If the QB sees that weakside (overhang) guy start to creep into the box He can replace him with the ball which means throw the slant to the weakside receiver.

What I like is you can throw, run power, run zone, or an RPO all out of the same set. So either the defense will play it honest and get gashed or sneak that extra defender into the box leaving them very vulnerable to an RPO.

I hope that explains it OK and I hope TR doesn't get mad at me for using too much jargon.
I think it's all rather obvious and mundane stuff .. but sure, agree with Timmy.

:liar:
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TIMMY
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:05 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:32 pm
On split zone or zone read, inside zone whatever Oline takes a lateral step playside on the snap of the ball. (steps where the play is going). So your back takes the ball heading playside, sees a crease and plants his foot almost like a cutback to head upfield. Defenses have gotten really good a sneaking an extra guy into the box post snap to take away the cutback. So what SDSU is doing is using their H back to block back the other way almost like a lineman trapping to take away the creeping defender.

I like it out of a 3x1 (trips) set with the H lined up like a wing to the trips side. Easy for him to block back but also easy to throw or run regular zone and zone read. You can also run a nice RPO to the 1 receiver( weak) side. If the QB sees that weakside (overhang) guy start to creep into the box He can replace him with the ball which means throw the slant to the weakside receiver.

What I like is you can throw, run power, run zone, or an RPO all out of the same set. So either the defense will play it honest and get gashed or sneak that extra defender into the box leaving them very vulnerable to an RPO.

I hope that explains it OK and I hope TR doesn't get mad at me for using too much jargon.
I think it's all rather obvious and mundane stuff .. but sure, agree with Timmy.

:liar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
The FOE feature is easily accessible on the top line of your User Control Panel. :D
fourthandshort
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:11 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:05 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:32 pm
On split zone or zone read, inside zone whatever Oline takes a lateral step playside on the snap of the ball. (steps where the play is going). So your back takes the ball heading playside, sees a crease and plants his foot almost like a cutback to head upfield. Defenses have gotten really good a sneaking an extra guy into the box post snap to take away the cutback. So what SDSU is doing is using their H back to block back the other way almost like a lineman trapping to take away the creeping defender.

I like it out of a 3x1 (trips) set with the H lined up like a wing to the trips side. Easy for him to block back but also easy to throw or run regular zone and zone read. You can also run a nice RPO to the 1 receiver( weak) side. If the QB sees that weakside (overhang) guy start to creep into the box He can replace him with the ball which means throw the slant to the weakside receiver.

What I like is you can throw, run power, run zone, or an RPO all out of the same set. So either the defense will play it honest and get gashed or sneak that extra defender into the box leaving them very vulnerable to an RPO.

I hope that explains it OK and I hope TR doesn't get mad at me for using too much jargon.
I think it's all rather obvious and mundane stuff .. but sure, agree with Timmy.

:liar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
oh sh-t .. are we going to be tested on this at some point ???
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TIMMY
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Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:43 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:11 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 3:05 pm


I think it's all rather obvious and mundane stuff .. but sure, agree with Timmy.

:liar:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
oh sh-t .. are we going to be tested on this at some point ???
I had a kid ask me once "Coach are we going to watch movies today"? So for the rest of the year we called it watching movies. Watch the movie!!!
Seriously I do like this concept. If can find movies of an RPO attached to it I'll post it.
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TIMMY
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Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:10 am

By the way SDSU "gutted" us for 2.5 yds per carry. Not so hot.
The FOE feature is easily accessible on the top line of your User Control Panel. :D
fourthandshort
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Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:49 am

TIMMY wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 7:10 am
By the way SDSU "gutted" us for 2.5 yds per carry. Not so hot.
And Pierre Strong got just 29 yards on 12 carries. SDSU ranked 3rd in MVFC in rushing ypg and 2nd in ypc. Strong ranked #1 in MVFC in ypc at 7.1 and #3 in ypg.

On a related note, in the playoffs our defense also held NDSU (#1 rushing offense in FCS) to 128 rush yards and 3.0 ypc. But even more impressive is fact that they got 35 of those run yards on the 1st play of game .. meaning their next 42 carries netted just 93 rushing yards the rest of way ... 42 carries for 93 yards .... that's 2.2 ypc the rest of game, despite our ineffective offense. Just absolutely astounding run defense against the best run offense in country.

But I digress .. back to studying up on SDSU's Banana Split MId-Zone Concept offense.

:icon-ugeek:
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Total Red
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Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:37 am

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
On the first play the Indiana St. inside LB'er #46 comes up too quickly. He does better on plays where he moves laterally in front of the RB and doesn't make his move forward until the RB has committed to a gap. When he tries to plug the opening too soon he can anticipate the wrong gap or allow the RB to shift to another one.
fourthandshort
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Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:40 pm

Total Red wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:37 am
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
On the first play the Indiana St. inside LB'er #46 comes up too quickly. He does better on plays where he moves laterally in front of the RB and doesn't make his move forward until the RB has committed to a gap. When he tries to plug the opening too soon he can anticipate the wrong gap or allow the RB to shift to another one.
In all seriousness this time, this is what our defenses usually do so well the last few years .. gap discipline/containment and staying home until it is right time to penetrate or commit to a play. When everyone does this effectively, we can be just smothering at times.

I think this is why we can go with more size and not need as much speed in our front 7. It's not that were slow on defense, our guys move well for their size .. but we are so big and disciplined, we don't need as much speed in our front 7. Our size wouldn't work nearly as eefectively against good offenses, if we weren't so disciplined.

What was most impressive about this season defensively, is we figured out how to get to QB so much more this year, without compromising very much in containment. Tough to strike that balance consistently .. good teams scout tendencies and usually can expose them ... NDSU couldn't figure it out in our playoff game, despite having seen us once already .. granted, they started playing not to lose on offense after a while.

Looking forward to next season's defense to see who fills in our LB depth .. that is our only weakness compared to 2019. DL is very strong/deep, DB group is still strong/deep despite losing Kirk. We got 3 of 4 starters back agt LB, but lost 2 very strong backups/parttime starters, plus a couple other LBs ... lost 4 to graduation .. 1 starter, 2 key backups, and 1 who was more of a special teamer.

but I digress ... when is opener ????????

:angry-tappingfoot:
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Total Red
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Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:37 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:40 pm
What was most impressive about this season defensively, is we figured out how to get to QB so much more this year, without compromising very much in containment.
Yes that was huge. It's very difficult when you face quality dual threat QB's but it's also exciting to know that the defense has the potential to be even better in '20.
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TIMMY
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Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:19 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:40 pm
Total Red wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:37 am
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:03 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZfNwL_1k0w
On the first play the Indiana St. inside LB'er #46 comes up too quickly. He does better on plays where he moves laterally in front of the RB and doesn't make his move forward until the RB has committed to a gap. When he tries to plug the opening too soon he can anticipate the wrong gap or allow the RB to shift to another one.
In all seriousness this time, this is what our defenses usually do so well the last few years .. gap discipline/containment and staying home until it is right time to penetrate or commit to a play. When everyone does this effectively, we can be just smothering at times.

I think this is why we can go with more size and not need as much speed in our front 7. It's not that were slow on defense, our guys move well for their size .. but we are so big and disciplined, we don't need as much speed in our front 7. Our size wouldn't work nearly as eefectively against good offenses, if we weren't so disciplined.

What was most impressive about this season defensively, is we figured out how to get to QB so much more this year, without compromising very much in containment. Tough to strike that balance consistently .. good teams scout tendencies and usually can expose them ... NDSU couldn't figure it out in our playoff game, despite having seen us once already .. granted, they started playing not to lose on offense after a while.

Looking forward to next season's defense to see who fills in our LB depth .. that is our only weakness compared to 2019. DL is very strong/deep, DB group is still strong/deep despite losing Kirk. We got 3 of 4 starters back agt LB, but lost 2 very strong backups/parttime starters, plus a couple other LBs ... lost 4 to graduation .. 1 starter, 2 key backups, and 1 who was more of a special teamer.

but I digress ... when is opener ????????

:angry-tappingfoot:
Our defense is very disciplined. They play with good pad level and read their keys. They don't fly up field and stay in their rush lanes for the most part. Our gap control is helped a ton by having a nose capable of 2 gaping and/or commanding a double team. Every time a team doubles it eliminates a gap.Think about it. McKnight is also doubled quite a bit because ....well, he's just real good.
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fourthandshort
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Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:29 am

TIMMY wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:19 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:40 pm
Total Red wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:37 am


On the first play the Indiana St. inside LB'er #46 comes up too quickly. He does better on plays where he moves laterally in front of the RB and doesn't make his move forward until the RB has committed to a gap. When he tries to plug the opening too soon he can anticipate the wrong gap or allow the RB to shift to another one.
In all seriousness this time, this is what our defenses usually do so well the last few years .. gap discipline/containment and staying home until it is right time to penetrate or commit to a play. When everyone does this effectively, we can be just smothering at times.

I think this is why we can go with more size and not need as much speed in our front 7. It's not that were slow on defense, our guys move well for their size .. but we are so big and disciplined, we don't need as much speed in our front 7. Our size wouldn't work nearly as eefectively against good offenses, if we weren't so disciplined.

What was most impressive about this season defensively, is we figured out how to get to QB so much more this year, without compromising very much in containment. Tough to strike that balance consistently .. good teams scout tendencies and usually can expose them ... NDSU couldn't figure it out in our playoff game, despite having seen us once already .. granted, they started playing not to lose on offense after a while.

Looking forward to next season's defense to see who fills in our LB depth .. that is our only weakness compared to 2019. DL is very strong/deep, DB group is still strong/deep despite losing Kirk. We got 3 of 4 starters back agt LB, but lost 2 very strong backups/parttime starters, plus a couple other LBs ... lost 4 to graduation .. 1 starter, 2 key backups, and 1 who was more of a special teamer.

but I digress ... when is opener ????????

:angry-tappingfoot:
Our defense is very disciplined. They play with good pad level and read their keys. They don't fly up field and stay in their rush lanes for the most part. Our gap control is helped a ton by having a nose capable of 2 gaping and/or commanding a double team. Every time a team doubles it eliminates a gap.Think about it. McKnight is also doubled quite a bit because ....well, he's just real good.
So for those who have actually played or coached football, maybe Timmy's explanation is a little more technically sound than mine. I take a bit of a neanderthal approach to my analysis ... food good, fire hot, dinasaur big .. you know, those kind of observations.

Honestly, I'm more of a physical skills and stats guy, who trusts Spack to find and develop the right players, and then develop the right schemes and game plans .. that usually work very well .. at least on defense and in run game.

In other words, I know what I like when I see it. Beyond that, better to listen to Timmy and several others here.

p.s. though he remains confused about his whole 12 personal obsession .. amazingly, he keeps forgetting they only allow 11 on field at a time.

:mrgreen:
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Humdinger
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Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:20 am

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:43 pm
I had a kid ask me once "Coach are we going to watch movies today"? So for the rest of the year we called it watching movies.
:text-+1:
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