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Muller and Lyons

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
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Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:54 pm

Bender coached at ISU four years, won 51% of his games at ISU, never won 20 games in a season, and won the Valley Tourney the year it was hosted at Redbird (his first year at ISU). He won the Valley regular season his 3rd and 4th years, but was not invited to either the Dance or the NIT either year.

Moved on to Wassu the following season.

Cuonzo Martin was at MSU 3 years. No dances. 1 CIT, 1 NIT, 1 MVC regular season title. Tennessee hired him.

Just saying it has happened.
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ISU FAN 1
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:52 am

bb fan wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:21 pm
I would not be surprised if Muller is offered a P5 HC without making the tourney.

Of course, I hope he does make the tourney. In a little less than a month from now.
I wouldn’t be surprised either. There are some really stupid P5s out there. Not a slam on Dan, just my opinion that an NCAA berth should be the minimum accomplishment to warrant the mid major to P5 jump.
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am

ISU86 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 pm
gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:55 pm
61% is pretty crappy. Let’s be real. That % would get most guys fired, but because our illustrious AD negotiated such a great contract extension with Dan, we might have to deal with this for a few more years.
Dana Ford's was 47% (both in-conference and overall) at TSU and yet it netted him five years at MSU. Go figure.
I'm unaware of Missouri State jumping to a P6 conference. Go figure.
ricohill
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:04 am

Humdinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 pm
Long post, but here goes.

Donewald got fired because the AD Ron Wellman, President Tom Wallace, and to a lesser degree some influential boosters just had enough of his lack of cooperation within the dept. He was approached about this several times. Not saying everyone disliked D. That firing pissed off a lot of people. It was a COUP, though. No one, and I mean NO ONE knew it was in the works except for Wallace and Wellman, and they had concluded FIRMLY that Donewald's curmudgeon attitude - including towards his superiors - had to go. A third gentleman was brought into the pic after the decision had been made, the night before D was fired, to prep for handling the storm. And it was a storm. National news and it stayed a story for quite a while. Say what you want - Well and Wall showed substantial virility in the coconuts department. **There's a great inside story to all this and that previously mentioned 3rd party has an in-depth, play by play first-person journal of the entire thing. I bring this story up because it'll be 30 years next month (WoW!) and I'm hoping he'll release his journal publicly to mark the anniversary. It's absolutely fascinating.

Donewald DID build RA, though, and it is ISU's crown jewel. '83, '84, and '85 got him that and he pushed HARD for a facilities upgrade, starting in '84, I believe. Big assist to the students. BIG.
I would love to see that journal of what happened. There are people to this day that have not supported ISU basketball since that firing. If you think ISU fans are divided now, holy smokes this is nothing compared to that time.
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:35 am

ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:40 pm
isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pm
ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:49 pm
What I find interesting is a lot of the Jank haters are now Muller supporters. Record and success is pretty much the same except the 16-17 season. 5 of Muller's 7 seasons are probably going to be under 20 wins. I think most of the arguments for Lyons and Muller are based on emotional appeal (friends with Larry or remember the glory days of Dan as a player).

Plus, for those that don't remember what the standard of excellence was at ISU.

Donewald -
85-86 - 15-14 9-7 - MVC Tournament Semi
86-87 - 19-13 7-7 - MVC Tournament Semi won 2 NIT Games
87-88 - 18-13 9-5 - MVC Champ Game - NIT

Had a bad 88-89 season and got fired (obviously there is more to it than record), but back in the day those results weren't good enough. Now they are worthy of a contract extension.
And many, including Bobby Knight, didn't think he should be fired. Not a good example.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
3 NCAA Tournaments, 6 trips to post-season in 11 years, 2 MVC Championships, 2 NCAA Tournament wins, worst finish in MVC play was 5th, ranked in the AP poll, graduated his players and had very few off court issues. Terrible example.
No, you don't get to switch what you are arguing. You posted those stats and compared them to Dan's record and said "those results weren't good enough". You know damn well that Donnewald didn't get fired for that record. So no, it's a shitty argument and you are just throwing darts at shit hoping it sticks to prove how right you are.

If you had posted his entire resume at ISU at the time, then fine. But you didn't. You ignored the good stuff, only posted the stuff you can compare to Dan and said "see!? we fired a guy for being the same!" when we didn't. You want to debate about Dan being here fine (I completely disagree, but it's your right) but at least do it fairly.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:38 am

Humdinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 pm
Long post, but here goes.

Donewald got fired because the AD Ron Wellman, President Tom Wallace, and to a lesser degree some influential boosters just had enough of his lack of cooperation within the dept. He was approached about this several times. Not saying everyone disliked D. That firing pissed off a lot of people. It was a COUP, though. No one, and I mean NO ONE knew it was in the works except for Wallace and Wellman, and they had concluded FIRMLY that Donewald's curmudgeon attitude - including towards his superiors - had to go. A third gentleman was brought into the pic after the decision had been made, the night before D was fired, to prep for handling the storm. And it was a storm. National news and it stayed a story for quite a while. Say what you want - Well and Wall showed substantial virility in the coconuts department. **There's a great inside story to all this and that previously mentioned 3rd party has an in-depth, play by play first-person journal of the entire thing. I bring this story up because it'll be 30 years next month (WoW!) and I'm hoping he'll release his journal publicly to mark the anniversary. It's absolutely fascinating.

Donewald DID build RA, though, and it is ISU's crown jewel. '83, '84, and '85 got him that and he pushed HARD for a facilities upgrade, starting in '84, I believe. Big assist to the students. BIG.

DM. Dan, when asked, made it no secret that he was interested in the Dayton job. He was a late candidate, probably just a little late. Dan was getting great press towards the end of '16-'17 and folks, he was a very compelling coach set to be movin' on up like George and Weesie with the right opp...for him. It was UNIVERSAL here that we needed to lock him up and that he deserved a substantial raise. We (ISU) could not pay him what he was worth at the time. Factual statement, meaning he was worth more than 600K. So ISU back-ended the contract by tilting the contract, in terms of buyout or fired without cause, to Dan's favor in order to compensate for not paying him what he could get on the open market. I do recall ChiRedbirdfan and recovering curmudgeon ;) ISUFan1 bringing up moderate concern regarding the terms of the buyout (at the time the complaint was with the 50K Dan would owe if he left). I considered the buyout figs to be window dressing and a bit of a favor of sorts was given considering Dan's history and personal success with ISU. I know some of you will blow a nut over the 'favor' remark. So be it. I agreed with the contract upgrade at the time. Completely.

Now that redbirdfan.net has lost its mind, and we've taken two half court shots to the groin, peeps are severely pissed about those contractual figures. That's your right, I guess.
I'm not. We had people here (yes, here) saying we should get Dan close to 1M if we could. And...I'm not gonna completely judge this season until season is over. Strange and disappointing year - based off expectations. But it ain't over yet.

No doubt Dan loves ISU and wants to have a consistent winner here but if the right opp comes about...HE GONE. Hell yes he's competitive and he wants to compete at the highest level. I hope we make a run this year and he triples his salary in another opp next year. That will depend more on the domino effect of NCAA basketball than anything, though. Wouldn't bother me to see Muller take a step up in national affiliation and LL ride Trigger off into the sunset after a 30 year career at ISU.

Interesting thought. Our headiest player - our most consistent conference player thus far -made THE dumbest play of...the...year at the close of the MSU game. That ain't on Muller or Lyons, fundamentally, and I've tried to figure that every way to Sunday. Matt deserves the break he's received here regarding that play cause he's been so good as our glue guy, and what a good kid he is for us on the floor. But damn that was polar opposite of his resume. Almost felt like destiny.

Good gravy I hope not. Seniors - play like seniors. See ya in Cedar Falls. :happy-smileyinthebox:
I agree with everything Humdinger says about Donewald. I was the student body president at the time of the student referendum to help finance RA. I had to sign a document as the representative of the student body prior to the referendum in order to have the student body vote. Humdinger probably has more recollection here, but the referendum carried. It was closer than I thought it would be as the students voting would not be the students paying for it. Prior to the vote Donewald and I went to a few student functions on campus to drum up support and as I was a huge Redbird bball fan I was still a little concerned about what I was hearing. The original plan called for a multi purpose student facility but as budgets were drawn up and cuts had to be made it was abundantly clear that the "multi purpose" was only going to include men's bball, women's bball and volleyball. And if Donewald had his way the last two sports would not have been included either. We joking called it the "house that Donewald built." I was invited to the ground breaking ceremony but was out of town on business. I regret not being there.


Donewald was a Bobby knight disciple through and through and while that worked for Knight at Indiana it wasn't going to work for Donewald here. Donewald was his own worst enemy.
SgtHulka
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:42 am

gobirds85 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:58 am
ISU86 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:35 pm
gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:55 pm
61% is pretty crappy. Let’s be real. That % would get most guys fired, but because our illustrious AD negotiated such a great contract extension with Dan, we might have to deal with this for a few more years.
Dana Ford's was 47% (both in-conference and overall) at TSU and yet it netted him five years at MSU. Go figure.
I'm unaware of Missouri State jumping to a P6 conference. Go figure.
They are in the SEC
DoubleDeuce
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:02 am

I heard our conf winning % with John Munn as trainer is WORSE than 61%....get him the hell out of here too!
ricohill
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am

Humdinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 pm
DM. Dan, when asked, made it no secret that he was interested in the Dayton job. He was a late candidate, probably just a little late. Dan was getting great press towards the end of '16-'17 and folks, he was a very compelling coach set to be movin' on up like George and Weesie with the right opp...for him. It was UNIVERSAL here that we needed to lock him up and that he deserved a substantial raise. We (ISU) could not pay him what he was worth at the time. Factual statement, meaning he was worth more than 600K. So ISU back-ended the contract by tilting the contract, in terms of buyout or fired without cause, to Dan's favor in order to compensate for not paying him what he could get on the open market. I do recall ChiRedbirdfan and recovering curmudgeon ;) ISUFan1 bringing up moderate concern regarding the terms of the buyout (at the time the complaint was with the 50K Dan would owe if he left). I considered the buyout figs to be window dressing and a bit of a favor of sorts was given considering Dan's history and personal success with ISU. I know some of you will blow a nut over the 'favor' remark. So be it. I agreed with the contract upgrade at the time. Completely.
What drives me crazy about AD's is the idea that someone like Muller is worth 600k. This isn't a shot at Larry because all ADs do it. They are like general managers in baseball for 30 years before the last 2 seasons when they started to figure out the data and that overpaying contracts aren't worth the investment.

No way Dan at this point is worth 600 K. I would put in him in the $400,000 range (if you are only going to pay Spack 200k it makes the 600k number even crazier). Moser was making $400,000 at Loyola before last year and they have more $$ than ISU to spend.

Lets face it, if Dan was making $300,000 with his record he would still be here. So now ISU is paying him an extra 200-300 k per year. Even if you gave him Ben Jacobson money, he's leaving the first time he makes the NCAA Tournament. So you are paying him money in hope he has success, instead of rewarding him when he succeeds. No way a trip to the NIT is worth that type of salary increase.

Ben Jacobson at least has earned his $1 million a year contract because with 4 NCAA Tournament appearances, a trip to the Sweet 16, and 4 NCAA Tournament wins he has brought in more money to the University and athletic department than they pay him (marketing, merchandise sales, donations (they bring in 1.2 million more per year currently than ISU in their scholarship fund).

Granted, I would never give any coach over 4-5 years at a mid-major because it never goes well...see Jacobson, Marshall, Chris Lowery etc... As much as people say these coaches are competitive and want to win, you will never convince me when you give someone a big long-term contract they compete like they are fighting for their life.

However, the most insane MVC contract is Wardle at Bradley. To offer a guy over 500 K that has never made the NCAA Tournament is insane. You could have given him 300k and he's taking that job to leave Green Bay.

It will be interesting if AD's start to figure out the economics of this and stop paying absurd salaries.
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:06 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:35 am
ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:40 pm
isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:28 pm


And many, including Bobby Knight, didn't think he should be fired. Not a good example.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct- ... story.html
3 NCAA Tournaments, 6 trips to post-season in 11 years, 2 MVC Championships, 2 NCAA Tournament wins, worst finish in MVC play was 5th, ranked in the AP poll, graduated his players and had very few off court issues. Terrible example.
No, you don't get to switch what you are arguing. You posted those stats and compared them to Dan's record and said "those results weren't good enough". You know damn well that Donnewald didn't get fired for that record. So no, it's a shitty argument and you are just throwing darts at shit hoping it sticks to prove how right you are.

If you had posted his entire resume at ISU at the time, then fine. But you didn't. You ignored the good stuff, only posted the stuff you can compare to Dan and said "see!? we fired a guy for being the same!" when we didn't. You want to debate about Dan being here fine (I completely disagree, but it's your right) but at least do it fairly.
It’s okay to add to your argument. It’s called point-counterpoint.

SgtHulka
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:11 am

ricohill wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am
Humdinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 pm
DM. Dan, when asked, made it no secret that he was interested in the Dayton job. He was a late candidate, probably just a little late. Dan was getting great press towards the end of '16-'17 and folks, he was a very compelling coach set to be movin' on up like George and Weesie with the right opp...for him. It was UNIVERSAL here that we needed to lock him up and that he deserved a substantial raise. We (ISU) could not pay him what he was worth at the time. Factual statement, meaning he was worth more than 600K. So ISU back-ended the contract by tilting the contract, in terms of buyout or fired without cause, to Dan's favor in order to compensate for not paying him what he could get on the open market. I do recall ChiRedbirdfan and recovering curmudgeon ;) ISUFan1 bringing up moderate concern regarding the terms of the buyout (at the time the complaint was with the 50K Dan would owe if he left). I considered the buyout figs to be window dressing and a bit of a favor of sorts was given considering Dan's history and personal success with ISU. I know some of you will blow a nut over the 'favor' remark. So be it. I agreed with the contract upgrade at the time. Completely.
What drives me crazy about AD's is the idea that someone like Muller is worth 600k. This isn't a shot at Larry because all ADs do it. They are like general managers in baseball for 30 years before the last 2 seasons when they started to figure out the data and that overpaying contracts aren't worth the investment.

No way Dan at this point is worth 600 K. I would put in him in the $400,000 range (if you are only going to pay Spack 200k it makes the 600k number even crazier). Moser was making $400,000 at Loyola before last year and they have more $$ than ISU to spend.

Lets face it, if Dan was making $300,000 with his record he would still be here. So now ISU is paying him an extra 200-300 k per year. Even if you gave him Ben Jacobson money, he's leaving the first time he makes the NCAA Tournament. So you are paying him money in hope he has success, instead of rewarding him when he succeeds. No way a trip to the NIT is worth that type of salary increase.

Ben Jacobson at least has earned his $1 million a year contract because with 4 NCAA Tournament appearances, a trip to the Sweet 16, and 4 NCAA Tournament wins he has brought in more money to the University and athletic department than they pay him (marketing, merchandise sales, donations (they bring in 1.2 million more per year currently than ISU in their scholarship fund).

Granted, I would never give any coach over 4-5 years at a mid-major because it never goes well...see Jacobson, Marshall, Chris Lowery etc... As much as people say these coaches are competitive and want to win, you will never convince me when you give someone a big long-term contract they compete like they are fighting for their life.

However, the most insane MVC contract is Wardle at Bradley. To offer a guy over 500 K that has never made the NCAA Tournament is insane. You could have given him 300k and he's taking that job to leave Green Bay.

It will be interesting if AD's start to figure out the economics of this and stop paying absurd salaries.
Hard to argue with any of that. Sports $ has gotten stupid in the last couple of decades. I blame Grandmama
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:31 am

ricohill wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:05 am
Humdinger wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:47 pm
DM. Dan, when asked, made it no secret that he was interested in the Dayton job. He was a late candidate, probably just a little late. Dan was getting great press towards the end of '16-'17 and folks, he was a very compelling coach set to be movin' on up like George and Weesie with the right opp...for him. It was UNIVERSAL here that we needed to lock him up and that he deserved a substantial raise. We (ISU) could not pay him what he was worth at the time. Factual statement, meaning he was worth more than 600K. So ISU back-ended the contract by tilting the contract, in terms of buyout or fired without cause, to Dan's favor in order to compensate for not paying him what he could get on the open market. I do recall ChiRedbirdfan and recovering curmudgeon ;) ISUFan1 bringing up moderate concern regarding the terms of the buyout (at the time the complaint was with the 50K Dan would owe if he left). I considered the buyout figs to be window dressing and a bit of a favor of sorts was given considering Dan's history and personal success with ISU. I know some of you will blow a nut over the 'favor' remark. So be it. I agreed with the contract upgrade at the time. Completely.
What drives me crazy about AD's is the idea that someone like Muller is worth 600k. This isn't a shot at Larry because all ADs do it. They are like general managers in baseball for 30 years before the last 2 seasons when they started to figure out the data and that overpaying contracts aren't worth the investment.

No way Dan at this point is worth 600 K. I would put in him in the $400,000 range (if you are only going to pay Spack 200k it makes the 600k number even crazier). Moser was making $400,000 at Loyola before last year and they have more $$ than ISU to spend.

Lets face it, if Dan was making $300,000 with his record he would still be here. So now ISU is paying him an extra 200-300 k per year. Even if you gave him Ben Jacobson money, he's leaving the first time he makes the NCAA Tournament. So you are paying him money in hope he has success, instead of rewarding him when he succeeds. No way a trip to the NIT is worth that type of salary increase.

Ben Jacobson at least has earned his $1 million a year contract because with 4 NCAA Tournament appearances, a trip to the Sweet 16, and 4 NCAA Tournament wins he has brought in more money to the University and athletic department than they pay him (marketing, merchandise sales, donations (they bring in 1.2 million more per year currently than ISU in their scholarship fund).

Granted, I would never give any coach over 4-5 years at a mid-major because it never goes well...see Jacobson, Marshall, Chris Lowery etc... As much as people say these coaches are competitive and want to win, you will never convince me when you give someone a big long-term contract they compete like they are fighting for their life.

However, the most insane MVC contract is Wardle at Bradley. To offer a guy over 500 K that has never made the NCAA Tournament is insane. You could have given him 300k and he's taking that job to leave Green Bay.

It will be interesting if AD's start to figure out the economics of this and stop paying absurd salaries.
How about the novel concept of being paid on performance? Maybe tie bonuses and increases in salary to the production of the team. The team wins. We win. The HC wins. Silly, I know.

I own a small business and April 2019 will be my 19th year. My compensation to myself is based on performance. If you want to make more...WIN. Sell more product. Win more games.
ricohill
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:44 am

I don't know if Muller's contract is public anywhere, but I like this structure. Motivates you to win and build attendance.

Looking through Dana Ford's contract. He makes a base of $375k.
https://www.missouristate.edu/assets/in ... .21.18.pdf

"Achievement Payments"
-$2,500 for APR score meets NCAA Standards
-$10,000 - MVC Regular Season Champions
-$10,000 - to make NCAA Tournament
-$20,000 - per NCAA Tournament win
-$5,000 - per NIT win
-$5,000 - Named MVC Coach of the Year
-$20,000 - National Coach of the Year

Attendance Acievements
-$10,000 - average attendance of 8,000
-$20,000 - average attendance of 9,000
-$30,000 - average attendance of 10,000
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:49 am

ricohill wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:44 am
I don't know if Muller's contract is public anywhere, but I like this structure. Motivates you to win and build attendance.

Looking through Dana Ford's contract. He makes a base of $375k.
https://www.missouristate.edu/assets/in ... .21.18.pdf

"Achievement Payments"
-$2,500 for APR score meets NCAA Standards
-$10,000 - MVC Regular Season Champions
-$10,000 - to make NCAA Tournament
-$20,000 - per NCAA Tournament win
-$5,000 - per NIT win
-$5,000 - Named MVC Coach of the Year
-$20,000 - National Coach of the Year

Attendance Acievements
-$10,000 - average attendance of 8,000
-$20,000 - average attendance of 9,000
-$30,000 - average attendance of 10,000
:clap:
Brick
Sophomore
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am

The thing is we don’t know what’s in Dans contract. He did get a nice boost for COY. As for Donewald he simply was a jerk too often. Hence the feud with WJBC. One in one he was okay the times I got to chat with him. But had an ego the size of Mt Everest. He was a GREAT coach. But his recruiting was falling off because kids didn’t want to come here and avg 12 points a game. Just my opinion
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:09 am

Brick wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:02 am
The thing is we don’t know what’s in Dans contract. He did get a nice boost for COY. As for Donewald he simply was a jerk too often. Hence the feud with WJBC. One in one he was okay the times I got to chat with him. But had an ego the size of Mt Everest. He was a GREAT coach. But his recruiting was falling off because kids didn’t want to come here and avg 12 points a game. Just my opinion
A friend of mine had a meeting with Donewald his high school senior year and Donewald did not allow his father into his office. The first thing Donewald asked him was " what can you do for me?" Then, on the campus tour the Redbird player my friend was with told him "you really do not want to play here." And he didn't.

If I recall correctly we lost Hersey Hawkins to bu because Donewald told him that freshmen do not start for him. Humdinger and few others probably have more info on this than myself.
Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:14 am

There is a lot I could say about these topics, and here are a few.

My expectations for Coach Muller have evolved, and there are a few reasons.

-Coach is in his 7th season. He's had many recruiting cycles to bring in his own type of guys to run with his offense and defense. This isn't year 2 or 3.

-Coach is one of the higher-paid coaches in the conference now. With the resources WSU and CU had, it was tough to compete. Their head coaches made 7 figures and their assistants were paid more. Their recruiting resources were better. Now that Dan is at the higher end of the spectrum and ISU spends more on MBB than its conference competition, the expectations increase. For Coach himself, it's tough to give him a large raise and a one-sided contract and not expect more.

-Coach took over a program that had a decent amount of success under Jank. He wasn't taking over a team finishing playing on Thursday most years. His first 6 years resulted in 4 NIT games and a couple CBI games. Barring winning out and making the championship in STL, we likely aren't going to make the NIT. Thus, our postseason hinges on making the NCAA tournament or accepting a CBI/CIT bid. The CBI/CIT bid doesn't make much sense because our transfers and injured guys won't be able to play in those games.

I will only care about more wins, like Jank had, if that is what gets us in the tourney. Jank beat a lot of cupcake opponents during his tenure here. We are replacing teams like Louisiana-Monroe, Jacksonville State, Montana State, Alabama State, Winston-Salem State, and Nicholls State with teams like Georgia, Boise State, BYU.

I'd much rather play in the exempt tournaments like we are now than host the World Vision Invitational like we did with Jank. Sure, Coach plays some cupcakes, but we also have had a lot more challenging games too. Where we need to improve is winning more of those, like we did vs BYU.

More to come as to thoughts on our Athletic Director.

My thought with the buyout. I don't like it, and I think it should be more. However, put in there that a home-and-home will be played. If a team he goes to backs out of the game at their place: $250k. If they back out of the one at RBA: $500k.
gobirds85
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Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:26 am

Reggie Redbird wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:14 am
There is a lot I could say about these topics, and here are a few.

My expectations for Coach Muller have evolved, and there are a few reasons.

-Coach is in his 7th season. He's had many recruiting cycles to bring in his own type of guys to run with his offense and defense. This isn't year 2 or 3.

-Coach is one of the higher-paid coaches in the conference now. With the resources WSU and CU had, it was tough to compete. Their head coaches made 7 figures and their assistants were paid more. Their recruiting resources were better. Now that Dan is at the higher end of the spectrum and ISU spends more on MBB than its conference competition, the expectations increase. For Coach himself, it's tough to give him a large raise and a one-sided contract and not expect more.

-Coach took over a program that had a decent amount of success under Jank. He wasn't taking over a team finishing playing on Thursday most years. His first 6 years resulted in 4 NIT games and a couple CBI games. Barring winning out and making the championship in STL, we likely aren't going to make the NIT. Thus, our postseason hinges on making the NCAA tournament or accepting a CBI/CIT bid. The CBI/CIT bid doesn't make much sense because our transfers and injured guys won't be able to play in those games.

I will only care about more wins, like Jank had, if that is what gets us in the tourney. Jank beat a lot of cupcake opponents during his tenure here. We are replacing teams like Louisiana-Monroe, Jacksonville State, Montana State, Alabama State, Winston-Salem State, and Nicholls State with teams like Georgia, Boise State, BYU.

I'd much rather play in the exempt tournaments like we are now than host the World Vision Invitational like we did with Jank. Sure, Coach plays some cupcakes, but we also have had a lot more challenging games too. Where we need to improve is winning more of those, like we did vs BYU.

More to come as to thoughts on our Athletic Director.

My thought with the buyout. I don't like it, and I think it should be more. However, put in there that a home-and-home will be played. If a team he goes to backs out of the game at their place: $250k. If they back out of the one at RBA: $500k.
Reggie nails it here. Great post!
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1429
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:32 am

Reggie Redbird wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:14 am
There is a lot I could say about these topics, and here are a few.

My expectations for Coach Muller have evolved, and there are a few reasons.

-Coach is in his 7th season. He's had many recruiting cycles to bring in his own type of guys to run with his offense and defense. This isn't year 2 or 3.

-Coach is one of the higher-paid coaches in the conference now. With the resources WSU and CU had, it was tough to compete. Their head coaches made 7 figures and their assistants were paid more. Their recruiting resources were better. Now that Dan is at the higher end of the spectrum and ISU spends more on MBB than its conference competition, the expectations increase. For Coach himself, it's tough to give him a large raise and a one-sided contract and not expect more.

-Coach took over a program that had a decent amount of success under Jank. He wasn't taking over a team finishing playing on Thursday most years. His first 6 years resulted in 4 NIT games and a couple CBI games. Barring winning out and making the championship in STL, we likely aren't going to make the NIT. Thus, our postseason hinges on making the NCAA tournament or accepting a CBI/CIT bid. The CBI/CIT bid doesn't make much sense because our transfers and injured guys won't be able to play in those games.

I will only care about more wins, like Jank had, if that is what gets us in the tourney. Jank beat a lot of cupcake opponents during his tenure here. We are replacing teams like Louisiana-Monroe, Jacksonville State, Montana State, Alabama State, Winston-Salem State, and Nicholls State with teams like Georgia, Boise State, BYU.

I'd much rather play in the exempt tournaments like we are now than host the World Vision Invitational like we did with Jank. Sure, Coach plays some cupcakes, but we also have had a lot more challenging games too. Where we need to improve is winning more of those, like we did vs BYU.

More to come as to thoughts on our Athletic Director.

My thought with the buyout. I don't like it, and I think it should be more. However, put in there that a home-and-home will be played. If a team he goes to backs out of the game at their place: $250k. If they back out of the one at RBA: $500k.
:text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1:
91Bird
Freshman
Posts: 76
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:40 am

Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:55 am

A lot of different opinions on this thread which is the point of a discussion board. Thanks to all that posted. It seems like the biggest difference is the expectations that we have. Some are pretty content with where the program is at and an MVC tournament championship/NCAA bid would be icing on the cake while others feel like we should be more consistent and the NCAA drought is already too long.

For myself, the gold standard at ISU continues to be Stallings teams in the late 90's with Rico, Leroy Watkins, Jamar Smiley, Skip Schaefbauer, Dan, Kyle Cartmill, Rob Gibbons, etc. That team would have beaten our 2016 team about as bad as Wichita did to us twice that season.

On to UNI...that's never an easy place for us to win regardless of their struggles recently.
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