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The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
gobirds72
Sophomore
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:44 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
You are correct, it is the same Dan Muller that blew a 16 point halftime lead with that team to finish the season...

https://goredbirds.com/news/2017/3/20/m ... ath=mbball
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
That lead cost us the next best thing to an NCaA bid! The U of I coming to Redbird Arena!
TheTruth
Sophomore
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:53 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
I don't trust that Larry Lyons is able to find and sign a coach better than Muller. We need to get real leadership at the top first & foremost.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:56 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
You are correct, it is the same Dan Muller that blew a 16 point halftime lead with that team to finish the season...

https://goredbirds.com/news/2017/3/20/m ... ath=mbball
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
So how many more years of futility are you willing to endure? If it takes you seven plus years to learn your job, then maybe you have the wrong job.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:59 am

TheTruth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:53 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
I don't trust that Larry Lyons is able to find and sign a coach better than Muller. We need to get real leadership at the top first & foremost.
Agree, if this interview doesn't scare you about our Athletic department nothing will....http://www.wglt.org/post/isu-seeks-indo ... 0#stream/0

“There are priorities on this campus and right now an indoor (facility) is not the highest priority from a campus perspective, though it might be from an athletics perspective,”

We can't even get our top priority off the ground so how in the world would we ever be able to buy out Muller or bring in a new coach?
CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 1047
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:02 am

The one thing this team is excellent at is dividing the fan base.
DoubleDeuce
Sophomore
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:46 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:09 am

Adunk33 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:27 am
This year's team has lulled me into numbness. Yesterday when MSU recovered the ball I told my wife as he was getting ready to shoot "ball game." I got over it very fast because this team has made me expect every possible outcome so nothing is a surprise. One positive thing that appears to have come from yesterday, it appears the team has a new mantra for the season.


Glad to see these seniors are handling this loss more maturely than half our posters, me included! I know I had a temporary meltdown.
SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 1315
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 am

Not gonna read the thread, I'm depressed enough. But, we are 2 half court plus shots away from being in first. Sickening feeling. Hope the team's in a better mood than me.

Valpo
Image

MOST
Image

My gut can't take any more of this
redneckredbird
Freshman
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:48 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:20 am

gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:56 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am


You are correct, it is the same Dan Muller that blew a 16 point halftime lead with that team to finish the season...

https://goredbirds.com/news/2017/3/20/m ... ath=mbball
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
So how many more years of futility are you willing to endure? If it takes you seven plus years to learn your job, then maybe you have the wrong job.
Like I said originally, I'm not going to convince you that I'm not ok with mediocre. I'm not going to try. But Dan's teams have exceeded expectations most years. Recency bias is a real thing. Don't believe me? Look at at the history of this board.
This program has been closer to the goal of breaking the NCAA streak since HCDM took over. How many times has Dan brought his group to Sunday? He has had his team in the conversation for the at large a couple years ago. Futility is the Richardson era. We are closer than many think. You can disagree with that, and I'm not going to change ur mind. That's fine. Futility....... Naw.
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:21 am

DoubleDeuce wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:09 am
Adunk33 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:27 am
This year's team has lulled me into numbness. Yesterday when MSU recovered the ball I told my wife as he was getting ready to shoot "ball game." I got over it very fast because this team has made me expect every possible outcome so nothing is a surprise. One positive thing that appears to have come from yesterday, it appears the team has a new mantra for the season.


Glad to see these seniors are handling this loss more maturely than half our posters, me included! I know I had a temporary meltdown.
I would rather see some piss and vinegar. Their reaction is the product of a 3-2 AAU weekend being viewed as a great ribbon receiving success. You lost. Get pissed. Play like you’re pissed. #soft
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:23 am

SgtHulka wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:18 am
Not gonna read the thread, I'm depressed enough. But, we are 2 half court plus shots away from being in first. Sickening feeling. Hope the team's in a better mood than me.

Valpo
Image

MOST
Image

My gut can't take any more of this
My solar plexus can’t take anymore.
gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:29 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:20 am
gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:56 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am


I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
So how many more years of futility are you willing to endure? If it takes you seven plus years to learn your job, then maybe you have the wrong job.
Like I said originally, I'm not going to convince you that I'm not ok with mediocre. I'm not going to try. But Dan's teams have exceeded expectations most years. Recency bias is a real thing. Don't believe me? Look at at the history of this board.
This program has been closer to the goal of breaking the NCAA streak since HCDM took over. How many times has Dan brought his group to Sunday? He has had his team in the conversation for the at large a couple years ago. Futility is the Richardson era. We are closer than many think. You can disagree with that, and I'm not going to change ur mind. That's fine. Futility....... Naw.
Do you believe we will be any closer next year when we lose the overwhelming bulk of our scoring? Rebounding? Assists?

I can hear it already, "this is a young team and they need time to develop". Blah, blah, blah...

This is the worse the valley has been in recent memory. No WSU. No Creighton. Loyola, the Horizon league transfer, is not having anywhere the year they had last year. This is our chance to be the best 15 seed in the country next month. If we can't get it done, then I ask the question again...how many more years are you willing to give Dan?
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:34 am

TheTruth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:53 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
I don't trust that Larry Lyons is able to find and sign a coach better than Muller. We need to get real leadership at the top first & foremost.
:text-+1: Could not agree more. Muller has some definite areas in his coaching that needs improvement. This season has shown that several times....starting games slow/poorly or even not ready to play as well as teams are weak in closing games out....etc. But I currently feel muller is the right coach for ISU.
Lyons can not check out fast enough. After reading Muller’s contract extension terms I have zero faith in his ability to negotiate anything correctly on behalf of ISU. I wish we had a new AD overseeing RBA renovation too.
Birdman07
Freshman
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:33 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:36 am

TIMMY wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 am
Brick wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:03 am
All this BS....fire DM....do this or should have done that and NONE OF YOU GUYS said a damned word about how bad those kids must feel! They give their heart and soul to the program but no one cares. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think they are it’s all about how mad WE are. I admit that I do sometimes as well but in the light of the next day some sanity returned to me. Inconceivable that a team could lose two games in the same season that way. I do feel bad for the kids!
Good post. Some nice perspective. All about how mad WE are right?. WE are spectators. The KIDS lost on a miracle shot. They're heartbroken.
Redbird fans my ass.
Do they feel bad though. They've looked pretty nonchalant and apathetic since exhibition game one. After all the downs they don't bounce back. So either they're just a poor team or they don't care much and last season they proved they weren't that poor of a team.
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isuquinndog
Site Admin
Posts: 1347
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:24 pm
Location: Normal, IL
Contact:

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am

You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
TheTruth
Sophomore
Posts: 206
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
Next year is YET ANOTHER rebuilding year, so if he doesn't win this year we're at least 2 years away from it now.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 560
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:00 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
That’s where we are at with him. If something is broke, you fix it. Replace it. Sitting around hoping it gets better doesn’t work. Seven years...
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:01 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
You’re implying we’ll be competitive with him the next 3 years. You believe that? Think all these guys sitting out leave?
DoubleDeuce
Sophomore
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:46 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:04 am

TheTruth wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:59 am
isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
Next year is YET ANOTHER rebuilding year, so if he doesn't win this year we're at least 2 years away from it now.
At least the building started this year, having all those guys in house practicing and building relationships.
DoubleDeuce
Sophomore
Posts: 463
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:46 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:05 am

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:01 am
isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 am
You fire Dan you are looking at minimum 3 years before we are competitive again. I'm not ok with that.
You’re implying we’ll be competitive with him the next 3 years. You believe that? Think all these guys sitting out leave?
You don't think ISU has been at least "competitive" all these years?
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:09 am

My worry is we lose 65% of our scoring and 55% of rebounding. This year we returned 90% of our scoring and we are mediocre. I'm not convinced this gets better next year.

Plus, I would think at some point the Valley gets better. Dana has good recruits coming in. Valpo has quality transfers sitting out. Drake now has a legit coach. If Indy State and SIU get rid of their coaches they might become competitive.

Our hope is some transfers from losing programs come in and build a "winning culture" next year?
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