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How many 4 year players under Muller

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SgtHulka
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:03 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:53 am
Red Rocker wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:28 pm
Dan is a much better recruiter than developer. Donewald was a master developer.

For Dan, I don’t care if he picks up transfers and Jucos as long as they stay to the end. We have lost a lot before we needed too. Another year of Teddy and McIntosh would have been nice.

The blown leads and inconsistency is HCDMs trademark. It has to stop and I would suggest that the best way to do that is to get a true PG who can run an offense and lead a team. Its kind of amazing Dan doesn’t see that. He finally figured out that 250 lbs big men are better than the 180 lbs version, so maybe he gets a true floor general someday who can keep some control on the court. Lee was that type, although they did blow leads then too.

Zach and Key can shoot, they just can’t run the team on the court.

Bring us a PG who can run a tight ship.
He had a PG. Then he realized or was told he could make money doing this rather than being thousands of miles away from home and getting paid next to nothing. EC leaving really set this program back. I fully believe that. And I don't think Dan saw it coming. Not like he had a monster freshman year, he was hurt.
:text-+1:
redbirdron1
Freshman
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 am

Sarge/Q-Dog, luv ya both but that kid was a bonehead. Hurt, yes. He was a good looking dude in a uniform and you guys
R prophetic in what you saw to come. Didn't have what it took in my eyes, meaning the savvy.
I know he's tearing up some league in Europe avg. 8pts and making 75K - good for him and glad he's got a paycheck.

U take him and an area guy who's got nice size who look great in their uniform with great form and no makes, add in $3.50 and it gets us an iced latte.

The Nic Moore's R the deal, Paris for the most part - they don't come along often. EC - can't get my passion around that guy from what I saw or envisioned.
SgtHulka
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:28 am

redbirdron1 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 am
Sarge/Q-Dog, luv ya both but that kid was a bonehead. Hurt, yes. He was a good looking dude in a uniform and you guys
R prophetic in what you saw to come. Didn't have what it took in my eyes, meaning the savvy.
I know he's tearing up some league in Europe avg. 8pts and making 75K - good for him and glad he's got a paycheck.

U take him and an area guy who's got nice size who look great in their uniform with great form and no makes, add in $3.50 and it gets us an iced latte.

The Nic Moore's R the deal, Paris for the most part - they don't come along often. EC - can't get my passion around that guy from what I saw or envisioned.
So you preferred him to be off the roster?
redbirdron1
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:01 am

Off the roster .....NO. Hate to lose kids. Did I feel EC as a pg made others around
him better and was he a facilitator as a PG - did not see it.
OK - let's be clear, the guy like Norton, local kid who all he knew was how to win
and deliver - yes, I'd take the tiny Norton over EC.
SgtHulka
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:11 am

"Ron", it that's even your real name :roll: I would have liked to have seen what he gave us this year. I hate the mindset that if you aren't generating triple doubles as a freshman your dead to me mindset. I prefer to see how they develop. Losing the first month of your freshman season, then having the blister issues later is hardly a good first test to be graded on. I think he would have given us more stability this year which we sorely miss. He obviously impressed someone somewhere over the summer. Would have preferred that someone to be me at Redbird Arena. *cue @gobirds72 saying I just compared him to Michael Jordan
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isuquinndog
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:33 am

We never got to see him! He was never 100% with us! I know @redbirdron1 in real life, we've had many a talk and I love you. But we never got to see the real EC and what he could do vs the MVC.

You don't think he could have really helped with this year's MVC? Even if you don't think he was going to help, he was still on the roster and left with very little time to replace him. Which is why we have a complete team sitting in sweats the end of the bench.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
SgtHulka
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:43 am

Since @redbirdron1 fled from my section to the other side of the area, just to escape the wrath of @Birdswin and myself he's gone full Neidermeyer on us

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Redbird28
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:06 pm

redbirdron1 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:25 am
Sarge/Q-Dog, luv ya both but that kid was a bonehead. Hurt, yes. He was a good looking dude in a uniform and you guys
R prophetic in what you saw to come. Didn't have what it took in my eyes, meaning the savvy.
I know he's tearing up some league in Europe avg. 8pts and making 75K - good for him and glad he's got a paycheck.

U take him and an area guy who's got nice size who look great in their uniform with great form and no makes, add in $3.50 and it gets us an iced latte.

The Nic Moore's R the deal, Paris for the most part - they don't come along often. EC - can't get my passion around that guy from what I saw or envisioned.
I feel like Jalen Moore from Cloverdale, now at Olney Central College as a freshman, is the next one of those type of guys. Look him up. He'd do us a world of good.

I just hope if we don't give him the time of day that Indiana State or Valpo don't either because I'd hate to see him put up numbers like he has been against us for the next 3 years.
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Bird Friend
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm

So, I went through all of our players beginning with the recruiting class of 1999. In that time, we had a total of 111 non-walk-on recruits. We've have had 14 players complete their 4 years of eligibility at ISU (including Keyshawn).
  • Four (4) were recruited by Richardson
  • Five (5) were recruited by Moser
  • Two (2) were recruited by Jankovich
  • Three (3) were recruited by Muller
Of those . . .
  • One (1) Richardson recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Three (3) Richardson recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Moser
  • One (1) Moser recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Four (4) Moser recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Jankovich
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility under Muller
  • Three (3) Muller recruits completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach

Other items of note:
  • 6 players under Muller have used the Graduate transfer. Three were Jankovich recruits.
  • Richardson recruits = 7 HS, 4 juco, 3 transfers, and 9 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from
  • Moser recruits = 8 HS, 7 juco, 3 transfers, and 4 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from.
  • Jankovich recruits = 13 HS, 10 juco, 5 transfer
  • Muller recruits = 16 HS, 14 juco, 6 transfers
  • Jankovich had 12 players transfer or leave the team, and dismissed 1 from the team
  • Muller has had 16 players transfer (including 6 grad transfers) or leave the team, and dismissed 2 players from the team.
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BTbird
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm
So, I went through all of our players beginning with the recruiting class of 1999. In that time, we had a total of 111 non-walk-on recruits. We've have had 14 players complete their 4 years of eligibility at ISU (including Keyshawn).
  • Four (4) were recruited by Richardson
  • Five (5) were recruited by Moser
  • Two (2) were recruited by Jankovich
  • Three (3) were recruited by Muller
Of those . . .
  • One (1) Richardson recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Three (3) Richardson recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Moser
  • One (1) Moser recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Four (4) Moser recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Jankovich
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility under Muller
  • Three (3) Muller recruits completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach

Other items of note:
  • 6 players under Muller have used the Graduate transfer. Three were Jankovich recruits.
  • Richardson recruits = 7 HS, 4 juco, 3 transfers, and 9 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from
  • Moser recruits = 8 HS, 7 juco, 3 transfers, and 4 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from.
  • Jankovich recruits = 13 HS, 10 juco, 5 transfer
  • Muller recruits = 16 HS, 14 juco, 6 transfers
  • Jankovich had 12 players transfer or leave the team, and dismissed 1 from the team
  • Muller has had 16 players transfer (including 6 grad transfers) or leave the team, and dismissed 2 players from the team.
Thanks Bird Friend! Would you be able to do this for the other 350 teams? I'd like to do a comparison.
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isuquinndog
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:35 pm

BTbird wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm
So, I went through all of our players beginning with the recruiting class of 1999. In that time, we had a total of 111 non-walk-on recruits. We've have had 14 players complete their 4 years of eligibility at ISU (including Keyshawn).
  • Four (4) were recruited by Richardson
  • Five (5) were recruited by Moser
  • Two (2) were recruited by Jankovich
  • Three (3) were recruited by Muller
Of those . . .
  • One (1) Richardson recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Three (3) Richardson recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Moser
  • One (1) Moser recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Four (4) Moser recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Jankovich
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility under Muller
  • Three (3) Muller recruits completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach

Other items of note:
  • 6 players under Muller have used the Graduate transfer. Three were Jankovich recruits.
  • Richardson recruits = 7 HS, 4 juco, 3 transfers, and 9 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from
  • Moser recruits = 8 HS, 7 juco, 3 transfers, and 4 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from.
  • Jankovich recruits = 13 HS, 10 juco, 5 transfer
  • Muller recruits = 16 HS, 14 juco, 6 transfers
  • Jankovich had 12 players transfer or leave the team, and dismissed 1 from the team
  • Muller has had 16 players transfer (including 6 grad transfers) or leave the team, and dismissed 2 players from the team.
Thanks Bird Friend! Would you be able to do this for the other 350 teams? I'd like to do a comparison.
:text-+1: :lol:
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:43 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm
So, I went through all of our players beginning with the recruiting class of 1999. In that time, we had a total of 111 non-walk-on recruits. We've have had 14 players complete their 4 years of eligibility at ISU (including Keyshawn).
  • Four (4) were recruited by Richardson
  • Five (5) were recruited by Moser
  • Two (2) were recruited by Jankovich
  • Three (3) were recruited by Muller
Of those . . .
  • One (1) Richardson recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Three (3) Richardson recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Moser
  • One (1) Moser recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Four (4) Moser recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Jankovich
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility under Muller
  • Three (3) Muller recruits completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach

Other items of note:
  • 6 players under Muller have used the Graduate transfer. Three were Jankovich recruits.
  • Richardson recruits = 7 HS, 4 juco, 3 transfers, and 9 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from
  • Moser recruits = 8 HS, 7 juco, 3 transfers, and 4 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from.
  • Jankovich recruits = 13 HS, 10 juco, 5 transfer
  • Muller recruits = 16 HS, 14 juco, 6 transfers
  • Jankovich had 12 players transfer or leave the team, and dismissed 1 from the team
  • Muller has had 16 players transfer (including 6 grad transfers) or leave the team, and dismissed 2 players from the team.
No names of the players. Weak research.



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Bird Friend
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Posts: 2087
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:01 pm

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:43 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:24 pm
So, I went through all of our players beginning with the recruiting class of 1999. In that time, we had a total of 111 non-walk-on recruits. We've have had 14 players complete their 4 years of eligibility at ISU (including Keyshawn).
  • Four (4) were recruited by Richardson
  • Five (5) were recruited by Moser
  • Two (2) were recruited by Jankovich
  • Three (3) were recruited by Muller
Of those . . .
  • One (1) Richardson recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Three (3) Richardson recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Moser
  • One (1) Moser recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • Four (4) Moser recruits completed 4 years eligibility under Jankovich
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach
  • One (1) Jankovich recruit completed 4 years eligibility under Muller
  • Three (3) Muller recruits completed 4 years eligibility while he was still coach

Other items of note:
  • 6 players under Muller have used the Graduate transfer. Three were Jankovich recruits.
  • Richardson recruits = 7 HS, 4 juco, 3 transfers, and 9 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from
  • Moser recruits = 8 HS, 7 juco, 3 transfers, and 4 guys I can't tell or remember where they came from.
  • Jankovich recruits = 13 HS, 10 juco, 5 transfer
  • Muller recruits = 16 HS, 14 juco, 6 transfers
  • Jankovich had 12 players transfer or leave the team, and dismissed 1 from the team
  • Muller has had 16 players transfer (including 6 grad transfers) or leave the team, and dismissed 2 players from the team.
No names of the players. Weak research.



Oh, I have the names . . . I just knew the limited attention span of RBF.net readers would never be able to grasp it all.
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Bird Friend
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:03 pm

BTbird wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:46 pm
Thanks Bird Friend! Would you be able to do this for the other 350 teams? I'd like to do a comparison.
Sure thing. I'll have it for you on the fifth Tuesday of this month.
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Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:21 pm

Anyone I’m missing?

1.) Andy Strandmark
2.) Brett Gillan (walk-on?)
3.). Vince Greene
4.). Gregg Alexander
5.). Dana Ford
6.). Gregg Dilligard
7.). Ronnie Carlwell
8.). Levi Dyer
9.). Brandon Holtz
10.). Osiris
11.) Dinma
12.). Alex Rubin
13.). Jackie Carmichael
14.). Paris
15.). Tony Wills
16.). Keyshawn

Likely the next to join - Hein.
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Bird Friend
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Posts: 2087
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Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:29 pm

Reggie Redbird wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:21 pm
Anyone I’m missing?

1.) Andy Strandmark
2.) Brett Gillan (walk-on?)
3.). Vince Greene
4.). Gregg Alexander
5.). Dana Ford
6.). Gregg Dilligard
7.). Ronnie Carlwell
8.). Levi Dyer
9.). Brandon Holtz
10.). Osiris
11.) Dinma
12.). Alex Rubin
13.). Jackie Carmichael
14.). Paris
15.). Tony Wills
16.). Keyshawn

Likely the next to join - Hein.
Gillan was a walk-on, so I didn't include him. Carlwell only played 3 years. The rest are spot on, except Alexander and Dilligard don't spell their names with 2 'g's. You've got Marshall on the brain, so you may want to see a doctor.
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redbird Recon
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Posts: 40
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Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:15 pm

Lee
Wills
Evans
Hein (4 for 5 assuming he doesn't transfer)

McIntosh (3 for 4)
Hawkins (3 for 4)

Ndiaye (3 years)

Keane (2 years)
Lynch (2 years)
Williams (2 years)

Washington (1 year)
Clarance (1 year)
Harvey (uhh...)
Griffin (uhh...)
DWRedbird
Sophomore
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:38 am

Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:29 pm
Reggie Redbird wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:21 pm
Anyone I’m missing?

1.) Andy Strandmark
2.) Brett Gillan (walk-on?)
3.). Vince Greene
4.). Gregg Alexander
5.). Dana Ford
6.). Gregg Dilligard
7.). Ronnie Carlwell
8.). Levi Dyer
9.). Brandon Holtz
10.). Osiris
11.) Dinma
12.). Alex Rubin
13.). Jackie Carmichael
14.). Paris
15.). Tony Wills
16.). Keyshawn

Likely the next to join - Hein.
Gillan was a walk-on, so I didn't include him. Carlwell only played 3 years. The rest are spot on, except Alexander and Dilligard don't spell their names with 2 'g's. You've got Marshall on the brain, so you may want to see a doctor.
Random question, does John Jones meet the criteria for this? He was here for 4 years and graduated, but got screwed out of 2 years of eligibility by the NCAA. I believe he was a Jank recruit, but it got me thinking.
Redbird222
Sophomore
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:33 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:14 pm

redbird Recon wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:15 pm
Lee
Wills
Evans
Hein (4 for 5 assuming he doesn't transfer)

McIntosh (3 for 4)
Hawkins (3 for 4)

Ndiaye (3 years)

Keane (2 years)
Lynch (2 years)
Williams (2 years)

Washington (1 year)
Clarance (1 year)
Harvey (uhh...)
Griffin (uhh...)
I know Madison will not play in a game his last two years due to injury but he will be with the program for 4 years. If this thread is about Dan's ability to retain players that he recruited as an incoming freshman, then he should count as 4. If the thread is about we could be a stronger team if players played 4 years at ISU, then I guess leaving him off is proper.
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Bird Friend
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Posts: 2087
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Mon Feb 11, 2019 9:46 pm

DWRedbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:38 am
Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:29 pm
Reggie Redbird wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:21 pm
Anyone I’m missing?

1.) Andy Strandmark
2.) Brett Gillan (walk-on?)
3.). Vince Greene
4.). Gregg Alexander
5.). Dana Ford
6.). Gregg Dilligard
7.). Ronnie Carlwell
8.). Levi Dyer
9.). Brandon Holtz
10.). Osiris
11.) Dinma
12.). Alex Rubin
13.). Jackie Carmichael
14.). Paris
15.). Tony Wills
16.). Keyshawn

Likely the next to join - Hein.
Gillan was a walk-on, so I didn't include him. Carlwell only played 3 years. The rest are spot on, except Alexander and Dilligard don't spell their names with 2 'g's. You've got Marshall on the brain, so you may want to see a doctor.
Random question, does John Jones meet the criteria for this? He was here for 4 years and graduated, but got screwed out of 2 years of eligibility by the NCAA. I believe he was a Jank recruit, but it got me thinking.
Fair question. I don't have an answer. My primary goal in doing the research was just to see how many guys played four years by coach. Honestly, I was surprised by the overall lack of players using up all four years of eligibility. Across 4 coaches and 18 or 19 seasons, only 14 guys.

A lot of folks have pointed at the churn under Muller, but there was churn under all 4 coaches. I do think there has been more under Muller, but I think some of that is Dan's willingness to take a chance on some players (Samuel, Washington, Lofton, Geoffrey Allen, others).
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