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vs Valparaiso, 2/5, 7:00 PM, ESPN+

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 1047
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:44 am

ricohill wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:13 am
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:02 am
I disagree with the many comments that you can’t teach maturity, passion, or desire. Ask Lou Holtz or John Wooden (if he was still alive) what they think about that philosophy. I mean, is that what the best coaches do. If Muller can’t do that, what can he do?
Matt Lottich had it last night. He was fired up and so were his players. Valpo is a Thursday night team with their roster and injuries, but sitting in 3rd place with 2 wins over ISU.

Outside of the 16-17 season, every year with Muller is a roller coaster. This team returned 90% of its scoring and still hasn't put it together. Maybe they make a run in St. Louis, but if they don't I'm not sure how a brand new roster with guys from San Jose State and Eastern Kentucky (that went 15-46 combined last year) and Ndiaye that Dan says isn't ready yet put together a 25 win season next year?
Agreed. Funny how some coaches get the most out of their players and others....
Tpguy
Junior
Posts: 631
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:44 am

ricohill wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:06 am
V Boy wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:10 pm
Tease.

What are odds this team has the cajones to win 3 in a row in the Lou? 50-1?

Paris Lee’s team would have mopped up this Valley. Not this team.

It would actually be better if we were the 4 or 5 so we can play Loyola in the 2nd game. If we play them in the 3rd game we’ll just watch the same game we always wAtch......Tinsley and Co going 5-29 from 3. Lose by 15
The only positive is every other team in the league is so bad that literally everyone has a chance. Someone has to win 3 games in a row??
Won't be us, Yarbs is not capable of playing 3 good mental games in 3 days
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Bird Friend
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:25 pm

RedbirdNation24 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:52 am
This “you can lead a horse to water, but cant make it drink” mentality doesn’t really apply here IMO. However unfair it seems, the onus is on the coach when it comes to motivating his players, and also recruiting guys that are coachable. Dan has shown he can bring in top notch talent in this league. However, every year it seems (with the exception of 16-17) he has failed to have these guys buy in. And when that becomes a trend, it can’t fall on anyone’s shoulders but the head coach.
Recruiting the guys, yes, that's on Muller. But that doesn't help once you've got the guys and they're in the game. In game and pre-game, a coach can say and do everything possible, but motivation is still an internal thing. A person has to want to be motivated, and I don't see that from many of the guys on this team.

At one point in the 2nd half last nite, I saw MY on the bench with his head hung low and towel over over his head, pay zero attention to anything going on around him. Wasn't watching the game, wasn't interacting with his teammates. He was mentally checked out. Sad thing is on the bad 3 he took, he had Smits coming out to contest the shot and nobody behind Smits. A shot fake and dribble past Smits was an easy layup for the taking.

Last nite was a perfect example of what happens when a group of players lose focus and no one on the floor steps up to bring them back into focus. All eight guys, all of them, made bonehead plays last nite that were exemplar of lack of focus. Even Chastain had a couple "where the hell did that come from" plays -- that he NEVER makes.

We played like we thought we only had to go through the motions to get the W, like we knew that the game was won before it even started. Frankly, we sucked.
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TIMMY
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Location: 1050 W Addison

Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:59 pm

When a kid plays fewer minutes and has fewer starts as a soph than he did as a frosh it's more than likely a red flag. You hope they'll grow up. Some don't.

4 seniors need to go see the wizard :angry-tappingfoot:
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bb fan
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm

Me me, me, TP Guy. I do think we can play three good games on three consecutive days. I actually think this is to our advantage. I think MY can do it. Just depends where out mindset is Friday morning on March 8. I was telling someone last night, that we will finally win the tourney and get a bid when we least expect it.

Of course the bi-polar nature of some of our posters are freaking out and bailing, and want the coach fired after this one game. I am not a cockeyed optimist by nature. I am a pretty pragmatic, even kneel old guy. It can be done.
Last edited by bb fan on Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
gobirds72
Sophomore
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:33 pm

bb fan wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm
Me me, me, TP Guy. I do think we can play three good games on three consecutive days. I actually think this is to our advantage. I think MY can do it. Just depends where out mindset is Friday morning on March 8. I was telling someone last night, that we will finally win the tourney and get a bid when we least expect it.

Of course the bi-polar nature of some of our posters are freaking out and bailing, and wanted the coach fired after this one game. I am not a cockeyed optimist by nature. I am a pretty pragmatic, even kneel old guy. It can be done.
I like the thought...but unfortunately there is nine other teams that have the opportunity to catch lightning in the bottle. Unfortunately, for us...it has been the other nine teams... 20 straight years. The odds aren’t in our favor.
bb fan
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:47 pm

Actually, Gobirds72, I would say odds are in our favor not being there for 20 years. It's gotta happen sometime, right? Seems every way that has come up for us not to get it has been exhausted at this point.

Again, I am a pragmatist. For our bunch, I think NOT having time and the distractions that happen the consecutive no game days is an advantage for this bunch that is probably not there for most all of the other nine tourney participants. If you think I am being too positive, I am only looking at they way our personnel has handed things so far this year.
DaveBird10
Freshman
Posts: 166
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:08 pm

Imo the problem with this team is fans hear analysis say on tv imo "illinois state is the most talented team in the mvc." We might be but just bc you're talented doesn't go into winning. This team lacks leadership, I've been saying it all year. Phil and Key were on the team from 2 years ago. They saw leadership but that hasn't translated to them. To hear muller's comments and the players comments last night is very telling. Does this team have the want to, the maturity, the effort, to get to where they could go? Idk bc here it is February and Muller is still coaching up the same things to these kids he was last year. Mullet hasn't changed as a coach in the last 2 years. He's the same guy who motivated PLEE and so on. Sometimes with 18-23 year old kids it falls between the ears.

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bb fan
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:09 pm

Very good points, DaveBird10. It occurs to me that player leadership is lacking. I goes with what HCDM said in the postgame last night. Dick made a comment about the team being able to learn something from the Valpo loss. Dan said they are seniors. It's February. It is way past the "learning lessons" stage. We got to get it together.
Last edited by bb fan on Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tpguy
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:10 pm

bbfan, So you are saying if you flip a coin and it comes up heads 9 times in a row, the odds are it will come up tails next. Math will prove you wrong, it's still 50/50.

I don't think we have played 3 "good" games in a row this year with rest in between, I don't think we can do it 3 days in a row. Just my opinion, sorry.
bb fan
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:18 pm

TP, I read somewhere, once that you can bet on getting 3 flips out of 10 coin flips. So yeah, I think we are way overdue for at least one. And I think especially this year, luck will be a big factor.

I think the 3 games before last night were played well. So I think we have played three games well, in a row. But that is not at all my point. I think these guys are even more likely to win three games on consecutive days. Get 'em together. Don't let them out of your site. It will keep them more focused. Don't let them read anything, or talk to anybody. I think they are more likely to do this than pretty much anybody else in the league. I think we will know if it's possible by the 2nd media time out on the game Friday. I also think it's more likely if we avoid the yucky 3 - 6 game. And of course nothing is possible if we are in the play in round. If somebody wants me to be negative about something -- we may need to win one or two roadies to guarantee that does not happen.
gobirds85
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:26 pm

Any other year I would agree with the fans who do not believe this is our year, but since the valley sucks so bad I believe anything can happen over the 3-4 day span.

Loyola is creating some separation and look what happened Saturday night. Remember just a few games ago they pulled down 8 rebounds in a game at Mo St. Eight freakin’ rebounds!!! My $$$ is on them to hoist the hardware on Sunday but at this point nothing will surprise me.

We have a shot with the bar being so low.
TheTruth
Sophomore
Posts: 206
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:28 pm

Sadly, this is probably the year the Redbirds break the NCAA drought......... if only because this year whoever is the MVC tourney champ is woefully ill-equipped to compete on a national level.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
gobirds72
Sophomore
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:46 pm

bb fan wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:47 pm
Actually, Gobirds72, I would say odds are in our favor not being there for 20 years. It's gotta happen sometime, right? Seems every way that has come up for us not to get it has been exhausted at this point.

Again, I am a pragmatist. For our bunch, I think NOT having time and the distractions that happen the consecutive no game days is an advantage for this bunch that is probably not there for most all of the other nine tourney participants. If you think I am being too positive, I am only looking at they way our personnel has handed things so far this year.
I would like to think so. At least that’s what I keep telling myself.
JHBird
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:21 pm

TheTruth wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:28 pm
Sadly, this is probably the year the Redbirds break the NCAA drought......... if only because this year whoever is the MVC tourney champ is woefully ill-equipped to compete on a national level.
I agree. That's the way life is it seems. We've had way better teams that fell short and somehow we'll make it with this one.
ISU FAN 1
Senior
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:32 pm

Brick wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:57 am
AgGrad88 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:35 am
What does a coach have to do or say to get these players who apparently have the mental capacity and toughness of a third grader to come out and put it all on the floor EVERY game no matter what team they are playing. They need to come out thinking they are playing Kentucky every night! It was all over the press that this Valpo team has lost their top outside shooter...… they don't have players that can hit behind the arc...…. they have loss 4 straight MVC games.... Our dumb ass players read into all this bullshit and decide to come out with a blah attitude thinking that this one will be easy. It happens every damn time, play good teams well and bad teams bad. Muller is on crack for putting Milik on the bench, swallow your pride and put the best product on the court.. The coach is just as weak as this team is.
You can teach Xs and Os but you cannot teach heart! When the most fire you have on a team is sitting on the bench you have problems. I still think Copeland is doing pretty well at the point learning a new position. I know he had some turnovers last night but also some assists. He generally took good shots too. He was our best player last night. Our glaring weakness is a physical presence in the
Middle as exemplified by Milik Being the only one strong enough to guard other post players. Rey is strong enough but too early in the learning phase. Phil at 220lbs is simply not strong enough. Should be a 4 not a 5. Finally our lack of depth is killing us. I hate to say it but we do need Hein back if only to spell people. Even more important we need JJ to provide another scoring threat when our best players get double teamed. Chastain gives you hustle and heart but he HAS to
Be a scoring threat for the same reason we need JJ back
It’s not about teaching heart, but good leaders can inspire their minions. Dan seems to lack the ability to inspire those that can’t always motivate themselves.
ISU FAN 1
Senior
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:40 pm

Redbird Alum 2004 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:52 am
DoubleDeuce wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:48 am
Redbird Alum 2004 wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 10:35 am
Can I fast forward to next season? I don't know if we will be good but at least with Fisher and Chastain I know at least two guys will play with heart and effort every night.
I understand the sentiment but I'm not giving up that this team will figure out the consistent effort they need. Key pointed out in Benson's game article that the coaching staff has been trying to drive the message home but it's up to the seniors to finally take ownership and be the leaders. Philly is emotionally mature brings it everyday...I hope he takes the reigns of this team leads them to a title in St. Louis.

This from the guy that can't remember to wear his lucky floppy hat every game.
Fingers crossed. I do think this is the team that will put together 3 great games and end the curse. It will be a great end to a frustrating season. I still remember Milik after the kids last year. He was in agony. I am hoping the season gets real for the seniors when they get down there.
Won’t the end be the 30 point 1st round NCAA drubbing they absorb?
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
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Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:43 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:02 am
I disagree with the many comments that you can’t teach maturity, passion, or desire. Ask Lou Holtz or John Wooden (if he was still alive) what they think about that philosophy. I mean, is that what the best coaches do. If Muller can’t do that, what can he do?
Holtz and Wooden were getting the pick of the litter recruits. Muller’s getting the leftovers. The attributes of those recruits are going to be different, included ability to self motivate.
bb fan
Senior
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:45 pm

Some folks here slamming the Valley. Just like last year. The world was ending without Wichita. Deja vu all over again.
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2377
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:52 pm

bb fan wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:29 pm
Me me, me, TP Guy. I do think we can play three good games on three consecutive days. I actually think this is to our advantage. I think MY can do it. Just depends where out mindset is Friday morning on March 8. I was telling someone last night, that we will finally win the tourney and get a bid when we least expect it.

Of course the bi-polar nature of some of our posters are freaking out and bailing, and want the coach fired after this one game. I am not a cockeyed optimist by nature. I am a pretty pragmatic, even kneel old guy. It can be done.
You need better self awareness.
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