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Shox thumped by Oklahoma

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
ChiRedbirdfan
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am

JHBird wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:31 am
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:13 pm
Reggie Redbird wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:49 pm


Considering how much WSU pays Marshall and what they spend on MBB, would you say they have higher expectations than ISU or really any MVC program?

If you're one of the top paid coaches in MBB, regardless of conference, the expectations are likely to finish in th top 60-70 of teams. It may not happen every year, but they want a return on their investment.

With his contract, Marshall had all the leverage to get a potentially-budget crippling salary and essentially no buyout.
Question...who gets more value out of their athletic program ISU or Wichita State? They both have the same budget of $27,800,000. ISU students/university subside the program in the amount of $19MM and Wichita States comparable subsidy is $7,800,000. I would vote to dump ISU football in a heart beat to have their bball program profile and conference affiliation but others may feel differently..
I kinda agree with you on that, and I like our football program...
If we had an extra few million to spend every year where would that go? Paying for a better coach? What else? A better renovation of RBA?
All of it i would guess...better resources and better pay for coaches, state of the art basketball only training facility, ability to travel more freely for games, enhanced RBA (RBA is a good facility but needs some enhancements, IMO) better locker rooms, cost of attendance payment...etc. All of the things that add up to better recruiting AND player retention. All of the things where ISU is disadvantaged relative to who we want ISU to compete with on a national basis. ISU has shown it can compete in the MVC with the current model but unfortunately it can not compete nationally as respects to being an ncaa tournament caliber team. We need to find that parallel universe and view how the successful ISU athletic program is doing it. :cry:

Wichita is a good example of resources being applied to their basketball program and what it can do competitively. Yes they have a donor behind the scenes but ISU also spends as much on athletics as does WSU. Unfortunately we have to spread the resources on many sports including one that is very expensive (football) and further causes ISU to have to spend even more on women's sports due to Title 9.

As an aside but related, the arbitrary ncaa rule that an athletic program has to have a certain number of sports to be Div 1 is another rule that is hurting the mid major and low level conferences from competing in Div 1 as limited resources are forced to be spent on many sports.
ricohill
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:57 am

For a long time, I wanted ISU to drop down to the Pioneer League with teams like Drake. Go non-scholarship and still have football. I don't see how ISU can have an elite basketball program and spend what it takes to be competitive in football? The math doesn't add up.

We now are trapped in Football because we built the new stadium, so we can't really drop down, but don't have the support or resources to move up. We are also falling way behind our competition with facilities and resources in football. So that needs a huge cash infusion and so does the basketball program.

Redbird Arena is getting a bail out to fix the lower bowl, but it needs several upgrades (see State Farm Center) to make it a great basketball venue again. It's going to be interesting to have a new lower bowl and the old upper bowl.

Women's sports are funded at the level where they can compete and be successful. They don't need the resources compared to Men's Basketball and Football. This is an interesting time and ISU better hope the economy keeps growing because a recession could be very troublesome for fundraising and getting state money (not that we get any now).
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isuquinndog
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:02 am

WSU having the Koch's has be involved in this discussion, that is a major source of their funding.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
SgtHulka
Senior
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 am

ricohill wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:57 am
It's going to be interesting to have a new lower bowl and the old upper bowl.
The only thing the upper bowl needs are hand rails
TheTruth
Sophomore
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:33 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:13 pm
I would vote to dump ISU football in a heart beat to have their bball program profile and conference affiliation
I would too, if that were possible. Illinois State is not Wichita State, their market size and donor base are too dissimilar to keep making the phony comparisons between the two institutions. Illinois State will need FBS football to improve their conference affiliation. Illinois State will need an improved conference affiliation to improve their fan/donor base in any significant/sustained way. Illinois State will need to completely purge their athletic dept of the defeatist small time mindset that exists there, before any of this can be accomplished. I once heard it said that only Illinois State football can get Illinois State basketball where we want it to go.... and that fact hasn't changed.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
ChiRedbirdfan
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 am

TheTruth wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:33 am
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:13 pm
I would vote to dump ISU football in a heart beat to have their bball program profile and conference affiliation
I would too, if that were possible. Illinois State is not Wichita State, their market size and donor base are too dissimilar to keep making the phony comparisons between the two institutions. Illinois State will need FBS football to improve their conference affiliation. Illinois State will need an improved conference affiliation to improve their fan/donor base in any significant/sustained way. Illinois State will need to completely purge their athletic dept of the defeatist small time mindset that exists there, before any of this can be accomplished. I once heard it said that only Illinois State football can get Illinois State basketball where we want it to go.... and that fact hasn't changed.
Do not disagree with many things you state at all but the path ISU is on leads to exactly where they reside and it is not changing. One thing I disagree is that ISU football will only take ISU to where it wants to go. That is only IF ISU has football. If ISU did not have football ISU would have options but those would be very different certainly than a basketball/football combo which is tough to move both when they are not aligned. FCS football and a midmajor division 1 basketball program is the worst combination as we can see by the fact that the ISU teams reside in two different conferences. ISU sports is in a bad place place as respects to conference affiliation and sports alignment and AD Administration/Coaches will be swimming upstream trying to reach success until that is corrected....that is unless we accept that this will be ISU sports for the future as there is no place to go for ISU.
TheTruth
Sophomore
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:19 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:49 am
Do not disagree with many things you state at all but the path ISU is on leads to exactly where they reside and it is not changing. One thing I disagree is that ISU football will only take ISU to where it wants to go. That is only IF ISU has football. If ISU did not have football ISU would have options but those would be very different certainly than a basketball/football combo which is tough to move both when they are not aligned. FCS football and a midmajor division 1 basketball program is the worst combination as we can see by the fact that the ISU teams reside in two different conferences. ISU sports is in a bad place place as respects to conference affiliation and sports alignment and AD Administration/Coaches will be swimming upstream trying to reach success until that is corrected....that is unless we accept that this will be ISU sports for the future as there is no place to go for ISU.
Long story short, 1-AA football will get Illinois State nowhere.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
Redbirds0215
Freshman
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:28 am

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... l-four-run

Invest in basketball, way higher ceiling


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Bird Friend
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:02 am
WSU having the Koch's has be involved in this discussion, that is a major source of their funding.
:text-+1:
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Jsnhbe1Birds
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:44 am

Yeah, WSU wouldn't be where they are without Koch because they couldn't keep coaches. isn't he making 3.5 with a raise every year?
TheTruth
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:47 am

Redbirds0215 wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:28 am
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... l-four-run

Invest in basketball, way higher ceiling


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Actually, not really. Invest in a better conference affiliation.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
CaliRdBrd
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:06 pm

Perhaps, Boise State is a better example. They were basically a community college ten years ago and, I know it's somewhat apples to oranges (football vs. basketball), but how did they get their program to where it now is?
SgtHulka
Senior
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:24 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:06 pm
Perhaps, Boise State is a better example. They were basically a community college ten years ago and, I know it's somewhat apples to oranges (football vs. basketball), but how did they get their program to where it now is?
Well, for one they seceded from the union and formed their own state.
ChiRedbirdfan
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Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:46 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:32 am
isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:02 am
WSU having the Koch's has be involved in this discussion, that is a major source of their funding.
:text-+1:
Koch helps fund WSU athletics. The students at ISU fund the athletics. Last year each athletic department brought in 28mm. The total revenue is the same and how they spend it is different. Beyond that facilities may differ if the Koch’s have done something for that in the past.
Last edited by ChiRedbirdfan on Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
bombay
Junior
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Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:49 am

Tue Dec 11, 2018 4:06 pm

Kind of crazy that Boise St juco beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl in 2007.
redbirdfan04
Freshman
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:07 am

If you are not a fan of the football team and only an ISU basketball fan I can understand wanting to only focus on the bball team. It seems most of us are fans of both. To say get rid of the football team is ridiculous. Getting rid of one program to hopefully make another program better is no guarantee. I know I am one of the few fans that is going to show up for every football game not matter the weather or record. I also love being in the MVC for football and basketball. Teams have come and gone in the history of the league and the league still has great football and basketball. When was the last time the MVC didn't have a team not win in the first round of the big dance? Yes, I would love for it to be ISU and every year I cheer in hopes we make it but I have never stopped being a fan because we did not. For me it is also about the University as a whole. I tell people I am a proud ISU alumn and push high school students to attend. Could things possibly be done different sure, but I like to stay positive and enjoy each season. Yes, three hour drives home after a loss suck but some cheese balls and a steak sandwich from the Pub2 help!!

Something that I use with my employees when we are faced with hardship or a difficult decision is the difference between venting and vetting. Some of the discussions on are just people venting which then turns into personal attacks on each other. Last I checked the people on this board are all fans of a little place in central Illinois. We already have enough haters(and let them hate!) we need to be united.

Go Redbirds!!
Jsnhbe1Birds
Senior
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Wed Dec 12, 2018 11:53 am

I like football just think anything below fbs is ridiculous. anything lower than fbs and youre throwing money away that could elevate other programs.
RedbirdSoxFan
Junior
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Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:49 pm

Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:48 pm
A down year for the shox is the nit. Im being serious. That must be nice. Marshall is a douche but he's a good coach and the game isn't passing him by. A lot of people left all at once. Trasfers, graduates, foregoing eligibility. And, they'll still make the nit with a bare cupboard.
8-9 overall
1-4 Conference
Looking more like the CBI or nothing.
Maybe worse next year without McDuffie.
bombay
Junior
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:49 am

Sat Jan 19, 2019 3:55 pm

With no football & the ACA likely falling apart as the top 3 or 4 teams in the league are looking for an exit ramp, their long term outlook is bleak. I think the game has kind of passed pasty, porky marshall by. I THINK -my opinion only.
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