Redbirds @ Cougars

The place to talk MVC Champion Redbird Men's Basketball
DannyCooksey
Freshman
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:27 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:53 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:34 pm
DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am
The fact is this game was going to be tough even if:

a---we played our best game of the year---which we didn't obviously
b--we had our full roster---which we do not
c---BYU was cold from the outside---they were not

We got our ass whipped. But.....we didn't quit. We played hard in the 2nd half and played a much better 2nd half. This could have been a 30+ blowout like Nevada and it wasn't. I realize it's still a one-sided loss but i saw some good things last night.

BYU is a good team and they are a dominant team at home. That is a brutal place to play. I don't know what the plans are moving forward (I think they are coming to RA next year) but this is a game that I would love to see every year. Good program and a chance for a good W.

Next year we will get revenge at RA.
We didn't quit? Muller quit for awhile in the first half when he went let that brutal lineup play for an extended period of time and ISU was then down 39-17 at half. I also believe some players must have quit and that was why Muller put that lineup out there. I get Muller needs to teach players that they need to play hard but I can not understand how he puts several weak players out their together for an extended period of time. He went the nuclear option in the first half after a bad start.

I wonder how bad ISU practices must be that issues keep boiling over into games? You would think he would generally correct the shortcomings in practice and not during games.
I saw a team playing hard in the 2nd half. We didn't hit anything in the first half and when shots don't fall things always look a lot worse than they are. Maybe Dan was mad at certain players? Maybe he was looking for a spark? Maybe he was rewarding a player with PT who earned it with great practices (something Muller is on record as saying that he indeed does reward that way)? i can't say why he went with certain lineups. I'm sure he was trying to find any combination that might work at that point.

I don't think Dan Muller has ever quit anything in his life. That's the impression I get anyway.

Playing badly and quitting are two different things IMO. We played bad and lost by 12 and it wasn't that close. Had we quit, the loss would have been by 25 or 30 and it wouldn't have been that close.

Denali2x
Freshman
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:05 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:14 pm

DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:39 am
Birdfriend72 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:16 am
DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:47 am


On the Hawkins/Taylor item, if Hawkins isn't leaving we may not have a scholarship for Taylor. My point wasn't that we started recruiting Taylor because Hawkins was leaving, but that we would have a ride available for him. While it had zero effect on us recruiting him, it probably help us land him (PT, Scholarship wise).

As for McIntosh, I apologize, I forgot that Chastain never had a shot at a scholarship this year with the transfer from Loyola.

My overall point (though possibly lost in translation) that Muller wasn't just sitting back knowing at the beginning of the year that both players were leaving and not doing anything about it. He was active on the recruiting front to replace the void that Hawkins would leave, and likely didn't know for sure that MM was transferring until the summer.

You make little sense. You must be Dan's uncle. You make plenty excuses for him.
I'm not making an excuse for why the team is playing shorthanded and that Muller didn't see it coming.

But I tell you what, you find me a coach who is the next Nostradamus, who can build a mid major roster full of all conference studs in preparation for losing four guys out of his rotation, and wants to come to ISU and I'll be right on board...
Well put .... I am proud to have Dan as our coach for a lot of reasons, and a lot of other schools would love to have him right now. We are watching guys play, and in some cases play a lot of minutes, that we never could have expected, even with the loss of four starters. I appreciate their effort, but also look forward to a fully healthy team to watch.

Brick
Freshman
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:44 pm

Everyone rolls shots off the rim. Shooting 57% is nothing to sneeze at. Key has been forcing things the last couple of games. Second half he took much better shots and played well. Even the BYU announcers took note of that. And yes those guys were really good announcers. Yarbrough has a different kind of talent and has to be aggressive TB is going to be a special player down the road. Right now because of our lack of depth he is having to guard players a lot stronger than him but it will pay dividends down the road this year and especially in coming years as he gets stronger. We really miss David for his protection around the rim. Mostly because we are unable to stop dribble penetration. David will change shots in there. We also changed the rotation on our zone last night and got burned on the weak side especially. We will get better. Frankly we are NOT a good defensive team now.

ChiRedbirdfan
Sophomore
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:23 pm

DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:53 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:34 pm
DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am
The fact is this game was going to be tough even if:

a---we played our best game of the year---which we didn't obviously
b--we had our full roster---which we do not
c---BYU was cold from the outside---they were not

We got our ass whipped. But.....we didn't quit. We played hard in the 2nd half and played a much better 2nd half. This could have been a 30+ blowout like Nevada and it wasn't. I realize it's still a one-sided loss but i saw some good things last night.

BYU is a good team and they are a dominant team at home. That is a brutal place to play. I don't know what the plans are moving forward (I think they are coming to RA next year) but this is a game that I would love to see every year. Good program and a chance for a good W.

Next year we will get revenge at RA.
We didn't quit? Muller quit for awhile in the first half when he went let that brutal lineup play for an extended period of time and ISU was then down 39-17 at half. I also believe some players must have quit and that was why Muller put that lineup out there. I get Muller needs to teach players that they need to play hard but I can not understand how he puts several weak players out their together for an extended period of time. He went the nuclear option in the first half after a bad start.

I wonder how bad ISU practices must be that issues keep boiling over into games? You would think he would generally correct the shortcomings in practice and not during games.
I saw a team playing hard in the 2nd half. We didn't hit anything in the first half and when shots don't fall things always look a lot worse than they are. Maybe Dan was mad at certain players? Maybe he was looking for a spark? Maybe he was rewarding a player with PT who earned it with great practices (something Muller is on record as saying that he indeed does reward that way)? i can't say why he went with certain lineups. I'm sure he was trying to find any combination that might work at that point.

I don't think Dan Muller has ever quit anything in his life. That's the impression I get anyway.

Playing badly and quitting are two different things IMO. We played bad and lost by 12 and it wasn't that close. Had we quit, the loss would have been by 25 or 30 and it wouldn't have been that close.
i get all of that and understand your comments. I am confused by why Muller would play that awful lineup for so long as no way he was playing that lineup to provide a spark. That lineup is not capable of providing a spark. Yes the starters were struggling but playing that bench lineup so long in the first half buried ISU's chances of winning.
Last edited by ChiRedbirdfan on Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Birdfriend72
Freshman
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:45 pm

DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:13 pm
cpacmel wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:25 am
DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:47 am
On the Hawkins/Taylor item, if Hawkins isn't leaving we may not have a scholarship for Taylor. My point wasn't that we started recruiting Taylor because Hawkins was leaving, but that we would have a ride available for him. While it had zero effect on us recruiting him, it probably help us land him (PT, Scholarship wise).
We had Washington's ride available. Muller was recruiting Taylor for a long time.
Mel, I'm really not trying to argue whose scholarship we used for whom. I'm not trying to get into a debate of how long we recruited kids. I'm really not...So I will concede every point to you, now and forever....

What I'm trying to get at is that when Muller knows a scholarship is going to be available he will try and replace a kid on that scholarship as best he can. He knew early on Hawkins so he had more time to work with, he didn't know as early on McIntosh, so he didn't have as much time to work with, but he did what he could with what he had. And that the reason Hein is playing heavier minutes is because he is all we have left on the roster, not because he wants him to.
You shouldn’t need a scholarship available to recruit. You should be recruiting as though you have one...and if you find a difference maker you make room for them. There is plenty of space to make room for it on this roster (Gassman, Hein, Martin). Maybe it had more to do with Muller was too busy be monster.com for his own assistants.

Birdfriend72
Freshman
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:50 pm

DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:53 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:34 pm
DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am
The fact is this game was going to be tough even if:

a---we played our best game of the year---which we didn't obviously
b--we had our full roster---which we do not
c---BYU was cold from the outside---they were not

We got our ass whipped. But.....we didn't quit. We played hard in the 2nd half and played a much better 2nd half. This could have been a 30+ blowout like Nevada and it wasn't. I realize it's still a one-sided loss but i saw some good things last night.

BYU is a good team and they are a dominant team at home. That is a brutal place to play. I don't know what the plans are moving forward (I think they are coming to RA next year) but this is a game that I would love to see every year. Good program and a chance for a good W.

Next year we will get revenge at RA.
We didn't quit? Muller quit for awhile in the first half when he went let that brutal lineup play for an extended period of time and ISU was then down 39-17 at half. I also believe some players must have quit and that was why Muller put that lineup out there. I get Muller needs to teach players that they need to play hard but I can not understand how he puts several weak players out their together for an extended period of time. He went the nuclear option in the first half after a bad start.

I wonder how bad ISU practices must be that issues keep boiling over into games? You would think he would generally correct the shortcomings in practice and not during games.
I saw a team playing hard in the 2nd half. We didn't hit anything in the first half and when shots don't fall things always look a lot worse than they are. Maybe Dan was mad at certain players? Maybe he was looking for a spark? Maybe he was rewarding a player with PT who earned it with great practices (something Muller is on record as saying that he indeed does reward that way)? i can't say why he went with certain lineups. I'm sure he was trying to find any combination that might work at that point.

I don't think Dan Muller has ever quit anything in his life. That's the impression I get anyway.

Playing badly and quitting are two different things IMO. We played bad and lost by 12 and it wasn't that close. Had we quit, the loss would have been by 25 or 30 and it wouldn't have been that close.

Maybe muller had done this before. Maybe he has about three players that are really difference makers (Fayne, Evans, Yarborough...Williams is solid). Tinsley couldn’t put a beach ball in the ocean, but is a heck of a rebounder. That’s really where it ends. Bruninga is solid...but needs to work on his defense. I know he is only a freshman, and because of that I have high hopes for the kid.

Birdfriend72
Freshman
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:52 pm

Brick wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:44 pm
Everyone rolls shots off the rim. Shooting 57% is nothing to sneeze at. Key has been forcing things the last couple of games. Second half he took much better shots and played well. Even the BYU announcers took note of that. And yes those guys were really good announcers. Yarbrough has a different kind of talent and has to be aggressive TB is going to be a special player down the road. Right now because of our lack of depth he is having to guard players a lot stronger than him but it will pay dividends down the road this year and especially in coming years as he gets stronger. We really miss David for his protection around the rim. Mostly because we are unable to stop dribble penetration. David will change shots in there. We also changed the rotation on our zone last night and got burned on the weak side especially. We will get better. Frankly we are NOT a good defensive team now.
:text-+1:

SgtHulka
Freshman
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:43 pm

Brick wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:44 pm
Everyone rolls shots off the rim. Shooting 57% is nothing to sneeze at. Key has been forcing things the last couple of games. Second half he took much better shots and played well. Even the BYU announcers took note of that. And yes those guys were really good announcers. Yarbrough has a different kind of talent and has to be aggressive TB is going to be a special player down the road. Right now because of our lack of depth he is having to guard players a lot stronger than him but it will pay dividends down the road this year and especially in coming years as he gets stronger. We really miss David for his protection around the rim. Mostly because we are unable to stop dribble penetration. David will change shots in there. We also changed the rotation on our zone last night and got burned on the weak side especially. We will get better. Frankly we are NOT a good defensive team now.
:text-+1:
Cuz Merica
RIP Berg

ChiRedbirdfan
Sophomore
Posts: 395
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm

DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:29 am
I'm not defending Hein, but honestly Martin isn't much better. His shot is just as inconsistent, he's not a great defender. Where he beats Hein is in dribbling, but Hein has a higher motor and hustles more. Would I rather have Martin in the game, yes I would, but its honestly not making a difference either way if our choices are between these two...
[/quote]

Sorry DW but describing Hein as a high motor player made me laugh big time. I just never thought a moped could have a high motor.

DaveBird10
Freshman
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:05 am

Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:18 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
DannyCooksey wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:53 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:34 pm
We didn't quit? Muller quit for awhile in the first half when he went let that brutal lineup play for an extended period of time and ISU was then down 39-17 at half. I also believe some players must have quit and that was why Muller put that lineup out there. I get Muller needs to teach players that they need to play hard but I can not understand how he puts several weak players out their together for an extended period of time. He went the nuclear option in the first half after a bad start.

I wonder how bad ISU practices must be that issues keep boiling over into games? You would think he would generally correct the shortcomings in practice and not during games.
I saw a team playing hard in the 2nd half. We didn't hit anything in the first half and when shots don't fall things always look a lot worse than they are. Maybe Dan was mad at certain players? Maybe he was looking for a spark? Maybe he was rewarding a player with PT who earned it with great practices (something Muller is on record as saying that he indeed does reward that way)? i can't say why he went with certain lineups. I'm sure he was trying to find any combination that might work at that point.

I don't think Dan Muller has ever quit anything in his life. That's the impression I get anyway.

Playing badly and quitting are two different things IMO. We played bad and lost by 12 and it wasn't that close. Had we quit, the loss would have been by 25 or 30 and it wouldn't have been that close.
i get all of that and understand your comments. I am confused by why Muller would play that awful lineup for so long as no way he was playing that lineup to provide a spark. That lineup is not capable of providing a spark. Yes the starters were struggling but playing that bench lineup so long in the first half buried ISU's chances of winning.
At that point they probably weren't coming back and winning anyway so Dan was proving a point. You can't give up bc your shots aren't falling. Probably why WT got benched.

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DWRedbird
Freshman
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:02 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm

Sorry DW but describing Hein as a high motor player made me laugh big time. I just never thought a moped could have a high motor.
Hahaha, I'm trying to find a nice way to say he tries really hard and never takes plays off...

User avatar
Bird Friend
Sophomore
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm

cubird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am
I blame it on Munn, Lathrop, and the academic staff :roll:
Frank? Is that you?
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Birdfriend72
Freshman
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm

DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:02 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm

Sorry DW but describing Hein as a high motor player made me laugh big time. I just never thought a moped could have a high motor.
Hahaha, I'm trying to find a nice way to say he tries really hard and never takes plays off...


I’m trying to find a nice way to say he doesn’t belong at this level. If he is going to get significant minutes...this is going to be a bad team.

Tpguy
Freshman
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:07 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm
cubird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am
I blame it on Munn, Lathrop, and the academic staff :roll:
Frank? Is that you?
Frank is in jail in Cuba

We sure go back a long way don't we Bird Friend? Remember the male cheerleader that want to whip my ass :oops:

DWRedbird
Freshman
Posts: 65
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:20 pm

Birdfriend72 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm
DWRedbird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:02 pm
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:09 pm

Sorry DW but describing Hein as a high motor player made me laugh big time. I just never thought a moped could have a high motor.
Hahaha, I'm trying to find a nice way to say he tries really hard and never takes plays off...


I’m trying to find a nice way to say he doesn’t belong at this level. If he is going to get significant minutes...this is going to be a bad team.
Yeah or we struggle because we are down 4 guys, but sure why not, Hein can be our albatross on what is apparently a ship in a storm basketball program...

SgtHulka
Freshman
Posts: 168
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:22 pm

Tpguy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:07 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm
cubird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am
I blame it on Munn, Lathrop, and the academic staff :roll:
Frank? Is that you?
Frank is in jail in Cuba

We sure go back a long way don't we Bird Friend? Remember the female cheerleader that want to whip my ass :oops:
She may have only been 4'10" but she had real moxy.
Cuz Merica
RIP Berg

User avatar
Bird Friend
Sophomore
Posts: 316
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 pm

Tpguy wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:07 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm
cubird wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:52 am
I blame it on Munn, Lathrop, and the academic staff :roll:
Frank? Is that you?
Frank is in jail in Cuba

We sure go back a long way don't we Bird Friend? Remember the male cheerleader that want to whip my ass :oops:
I thought that was your son-in-law . . . and, yeah, we do go back a long way . . . Sgt. Hulka was just a Private then.
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