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The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
DWRedbird
Sophomore
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:48 am

HT59 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:41 pm
This team, among other things needs continuity. I have mentioned the round robin of assistant coaches. Most responses said that was part of mid major college basketball. There were always any number of good coaches waiting in the wings. Bullshit, not buying it at all. These guys need some consistency and structure year to year. It appears to me that coaching the game is not the biggest challenge Muller faces. Some of the pregame body language indicates he has lost the team. Maybe not completely lost them but they clearly have different agendas. IMO, the erratic play is a reflection of the behind the scenes conditions of the program.
I agree that consistency is a must, and I think this goes back to something @ricohill mentioned in another thread, and that's that this team lacks identity. I think if we had an identity to cling to the coaching turnover wouldn't have as big an impact, but because we don't have a base every time we change something it is a complete mindset overhaul. If we pick one thing and stick with it and grow around it, I think the program would be better.

That said, I disagree with that he has lost the team. I think he still has the team, I think these guys love him (unless Phil's relative can say otherwise with inside info), but I don't think that we have a team. I think we have talented guys, and I think 1 on 1 our guys could take on anyone in the league and win. But together, we often seem to be working against each other. I think we also lack composure (rare for having 4 seniors), mental fortitude, and overall BBIQ. I think he "has" the guys, but I don't think we have the team right now.
Brick
Sophomore
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:03 am

All this BS....fire DM....do this or should have done that and NONE OF YOU GUYS said a damned word about how bad those kids must feel! They give their heart and soul to the program but no one cares. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think they are it’s all about how mad WE are. I admit that I do sometimes as well but in the light of the next day some sanity returned to me. Inconceivable that a team could lose two games in the same season that way. I do feel bad for the kids!
DoubleDeuce
Sophomore
Posts: 488
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:46 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:19 am

Phil Fayne had a hellva game.
JHBird
Senior
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:23 am

bawhale88 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:09 pm
the end of this season cant come soon enough...
I agree. I just want this group of seniors gone.
I think next time we should just punt from our own endzone.
JHBird
Senior
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 am

Brick wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:39 pm
birdballfan wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:25 pm
Brick wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:18 pm
Milik had his guy sealed off on the baseline. Game over but Chastain didn’t give him the ball and then threw the ball away over a double team. DM set up the play we just didn’t take it. We had two guys dive for the loose ball and didn’t get
It. In my 60+ years of watching basketball I have NEVER seen a team lose two games in half court shots at the buzzer. Just freaking bizarre! DM didn’t cost us this game!!! If you want to get right down to it 7/14 FTs cost us this game!
Quit making sense Brick it doesn't go over well on this anti bird board!!
Though some don’t want to hear it the last timeout wasn’t a bad call. We set up an inbounds play and didn’t execute. Plain and simple. It was there! So sue me!
Yep, and if he didn't call a time out and that play happened people would be bitching that he should've called a timeout. Either way, the team probably fails to execute. Dan's problem is recruiting more than coaching. These players don't look coachable.
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TIMMY
Senior
Posts: 1003
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:40 am

Brick wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:03 am
All this BS....fire DM....do this or should have done that and NONE OF YOU GUYS said a damned word about how bad those kids must feel! They give their heart and soul to the program but no one cares. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think they are it’s all about how mad WE are. I admit that I do sometimes as well but in the light of the next day some sanity returned to me. Inconceivable that a team could lose two games in the same season that way. I do feel bad for the kids!
Good post. Some nice perspective. All about how mad WE are right?. WE are spectators. The KIDS lost on a miracle shot. They're heartbroken.
Redbird fans my ass.
JHBird
Senior
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:41 am

saxman210 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:51 pm
Going back to the inbounds play:

I’m surprised that we didn’t run our 5 guys on the baseline play. Sure, Dana May have scouted it but let Chastain inbound it, have Phil run down the floor and just throw it out there. Heck, I woulda been happier if they just handed it to Milik and let him throw it the length and if it goes out of bounds, it goes out of bounds down there and make them go the length of the court.
They wouldn't have to go the length of the court, just half the court, right?
ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 2420
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 am

If my choices are Negative Nellie or Positive Pansy, intellectual honesty dictates the former IMO. That said, I want this season to last as long as possible. Bet it’s with another loss on Sunday.
Redbirds4Life
Freshman
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:01 am

Brick wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:03 am
All this BS....fire DM....do this or should have done that and NONE OF YOU GUYS said a damned word about how bad those kids must feel! They give their heart and soul to the program but no one cares. Doesn’t matter how good or bad you think they are it’s all about how mad WE are. I admit that I do sometimes as well but in the light of the next day some sanity returned to me. Inconceivable that a team could lose two games in the same season that way. I do feel bad for the kids!
Yeah....they're 20ish year olds playing college basketball and lost a regular season game, I think they'll live. My sympathy card is punched out after last Tuesday Vs Valpo when they didn't even consider showing up. :violin:
gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:04 am

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 am
If my choices are Negative Nellie or Positive Pansy, intellectual honesty dictates the former IMO. That said, I want this season to last as long as possible. Bet it’s with another loss on Sunday.
I prefer Redbird realists.

And Brick is spot on. Our guys must have felt like crap after last night. To lose one game a year like that sucks, but to lose two...
redneckredbird
Freshman
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:48 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am

To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1433
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
You are correct, it is the same Dan Muller that blew a 16 point halftime lead with that team to finish the season...

https://goredbirds.com/news/2017/3/20/m ... ath=mbball
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isuquinndog
Site Admin
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Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:18 am

gobirds85 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm
I brought myself to watch the finish again and he clearly traveled but we should have never been in that position.

We hit some fts. We win.
We inbound the ball. We win.
We dive on the floor. We win.
The refs make the right call. We win.

But hey, we make ESPN again. Yay!
So how many of those are a direct result of Dan not being good? They aren't play calls. They aren't X and O's. They aren't substiution problems.

The players have to execute. Yes, blah blah, he brought them here. Fine, but Gregggg brought in those players and they are in the bottom half of their conference. From what it appears, the inbounds play as drawn up was fine. Chastain didn't get it to MY. Then all hell broke loose.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:22 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
He isn't getting any better on the bench. Look at that Moser guy up at Loyola. Growth. Watch they way Loyola plays. Moser has matured as a coach and the results are there. Muller, on the other hand, hasn't. We lose a TON of one possession games or get creamed on our home court. Then like last week, he throws the team under the bus. If this were his first 3-4 years, then I say give him some more time, but this is his seventh year and we are going nowhere. I want better for this program and do not see it with Muller at the helm. We, also, need to boot lyons out as he is the author of our current situation.
Adunk33
Senior
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:08 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:27 am

This year's team has lulled me into numbness. Yesterday when MSU recovered the ball I told my wife as he was getting ready to shoot "ball game." I got over it very fast because this team has made me expect every possible outcome so nothing is a surprise. One positive thing that appears to have come from yesterday, it appears the team has a new mantra for the season.


gobirds85
Junior
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:32 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:18 am
gobirds85 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm
I brought myself to watch the finish again and he clearly traveled but we should have never been in that position.

We hit some fts. We win.
We inbound the ball. We win.
We dive on the floor. We win.
The refs make the right call. We win.

But hey, we make ESPN again. Yay!
So how many of those are a direct result of Dan not being good? They aren't play calls. They aren't X and O's. They aren't substiution problems.

The players have to execute. Yes, blah blah, he brought them here. Fine, but Gregggg brought in those players and they are in the bottom half of their conference. From what it appears, the inbounds play as drawn up was fine. Chastain didn't get it to MY. Then all hell broke loose.
Last night was just one more example of his shortcomings. Weren't we up 10 with 2 mins to go at Valpo? How many ass kickings do we need to endure...SDSU, Ole Miss, Georgia, UIC, Valpo, bu, etc, etc, etc, before we realize that he is in over his head?

I'm sure the team appreciated his post game comments after Valpo last week. If he can't win this year in a dumpster fire of a conference then he will never win on Sunday. And if this happens, then it's to move on. This program is clearly not moving forward under his leadership.

Simple one word answer to a simple question...are you comfortable with where the program is now? Anyone can answer.

My answer..NO.
redneckredbird
Freshman
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:48 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:33 am

gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:22 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
He isn't getting any better on the bench. Look at that Moser guy up at Loyola. Growth. Watch they way Loyola plays. Moser has matured as a coach and the results are there. Muller, on the other hand, hasn't. We lose a TON of one possession games or get creamed on our home court. Then like last week, he throws the team under the bus. If this were his first 3-4 years, then I say give him some more time, but this is his seventh year and we are going nowhere. I want better for this program and do not see it with Muller at the helm. We, also, need to boot lyons out as he is the author of our current situation.
I think not having "that" guy with the killer instinct is his big flaw this year. Who do you want with the ball at the end? MY turns it over too much and he has already had that happen at the end of a game this year. Key and Phil dont make free throws well enough. Cope? We don't have a slam dunk, I want this guy to have it at the end, guy. In the past when we finished games better, we had that guy. D. Knight, P. Lee. I wanted them to have the ball at the end. U follow me?

All that said, it is on HCDM to find that guy. That is on him no doubt. How does our conference season look different with a closer out there? I think a lot different.
Redbirds4Life
Freshman
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:35 am

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:36 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:18 am
gobirds85 wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:51 pm
I brought myself to watch the finish again and he clearly traveled but we should have never been in that position.

We hit some fts. We win.
We inbound the ball. We win.
We dive on the floor. We win.
The refs make the right call. We win.

But hey, we make ESPN again. Yay!
So how many of those are a direct result of Dan not being good? They aren't play calls. They aren't X and O's. They aren't substiution problems.

The players have to execute. Yes, blah blah, he brought them here. Fine, but Gregggg brought in those players and they are in the bottom half of their conference. From what it appears, the inbounds play as drawn up was fine. Chastain didn't get it to MY. Then all hell broke loose.
Isn't the players inability to execute a direct reflection of their head coach? It isn't as if this team isn't talented.

Loved Dan as a player, and he is a really good guy, but I'm sorry, unless you are ok with a mediocre program, then you need to try something new. Dan's had some bight spots with this program as a coach, but he hasn't really accomplished anything, outside of the team that tied for the league. It is frustrating, but I don't think that we can just sit back and make excuses for Dan. When he said the other night, that he expected more out of his seniors, I was so frustrated hearing that. It is fine if you expect more out of your senior leadership in November and December, but when it is February, that's on you Dan. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got." - Henry Ford - IMO, a change needs to be made.
gobirds72
Sophomore
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:37 am

gobirds85 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:04 am
ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:55 am
If my choices are Negative Nellie or Positive Pansy, intellectual honesty dictates the former IMO. That said, I want this season to last as long as possible. Bet it’s with another loss on Sunday.
I prefer Redbird realists.

And Brick is spot on. Our guys must have felt like crap after last night. To lose one game a year like that sucks, but to lose two...

I’m guessing the cost of a college scholarship is $20,000 a year! The cost of a Coach Muller $600,000! I kind of view the players as salaried employees and the Coach as the CEO! If the players aren’t cutting it...who’s fault is this? College Sports is a business whether you agree or not! How serious you view it will dictate how far the programs goes!
redneckredbird
Freshman
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:48 pm

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am

ricohill wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:16 am
redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:06 am
To everyone calling for HCDM to be fired or bought out, we as fans were singing his praises for winning close games when Paris and Tony were seniors. The Birds were the first team left out of the big dance that year. Same coach. I love the guys on this team, but they have shown they do not have that killer instinct at the end of games. Paris and company did. That's it, that's the difference. Call for the coaches head all you want, he hasn't changed. HCDM expected more from his team, but he isn't the one out there turning the ball over, or over pursuing on a close out. He should be held accountable for the roster, but his gameplan and in game adjustments are not the reason we are having a rough year. Listen to the players talk about these games, they take the blame for losing focus. I'm sure there are some that would say I'm ok with mediocre, I'm not but will never be able to change your mind about that. I love this program, I want better, but changing the coach would be a step back IMO.
You are correct, it is the same Dan Muller that blew a 16 point halftime lead with that team to finish the season...

https://goredbirds.com/news/2017/3/20/m ... ath=mbball
I can't argue that. I was devastated at the arena that night! I guess my point is, there is no guarantee that a new coach is a better coach. This is Dan's first gig as a head coach, he still has learning to do, I can see that, but starting with an unknown doesn't automatically mean we will be better.
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