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Fire Larry Lyons

The place to talk Illinois State overall
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:26 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:07 am
ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:21 pm
It’s more complicated than discrediting Lyons for the MBB program being in the crapper, and crediting him for volleyball success. On a micro level, the department can claim some successes. But the big picture has been a failure under Lyons direction, unless nepotism is the measuring stick. Lyons destroyed his credibility by having Jared and Ivanka on the payroll.
This is exactly right. The state of ISU athletics are unhealthy long term if one analyzes the big picture. They Reside in a sinking conference as respects to competitive profile and membership. Successful athletic programs leave the comference and the MVC in turn raids lesser conferences for new athletic programs. This has been hallmark of the MVC going back to its existence. Also the MVC conference is divided by private schools that have different needs than the public university’s needs. Both sides work against each other.

ISU athletics are bifurcated by having the two main sports in different conferences with a different level of play which eliminates scheduling, marketing, and promotional synergies. ISU basketball and football can not change conferences for the better if it was ever desired as there is no place to go. The football program and basketball programs are fighting against each other for limited resources to the detriment of each other. Those programs would each be better off without the other (example ... best thing that ever happened to Wichita basketball was their AD department getting rid of fcs football or the best thing that ever happened to Creighton basketball was eliminating their football)

Fan interest wanning and fundraising has been poor. ISU athletics one of the 50 Worst performing athletic departments as measured by subsidy percentage. The ISU athletic department profile is even more disappointing when looking at the profile on the university side. Some people compare ISU to NIU when talking about athletic department success. Why?.... as that is such a low hurdle and a disservice to the university side. ISU should find meaningful comparable national universities when evaluating their athletics and wake up to reality as to how underperforming athletics have been for ISU and then formulate a long term strategy to fix, which could take several decades.

As an side I too have shifted my donations away from ISU athletics. I also regret any donation I have made in the last 3 years as the department has no long term vision, is currently poorly lead and donations are a waste of money, IMO.
Excellent post!!! Great to see someone else that gets what is going on.

My question for Lyons and the athletic department would be what are your goals and what does success look like? I'm guessing success to them would be to break even financially. I don't think the goal is to grow and develop top-tier athletic programs. Nothing they do shows an interest in becoming an elite athletic department.

Does ISU have a 1, 5, 10, or 25 year plan for the athletic department? Not from what I understand. They have no plan for fundraising other than to randomly ask people for money. Now they are making coaches do their own fundraising as well.

Making a donation now is just throwing your money away. The fact that Dietz is ok with Lyons pretty much sums up how little athletic success means to him.
Redbird60451
Freshman
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:22 pm
Location: New Lenox

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:27 am

I don't really know if firing the guy or whole department is what is needed. But I can tell you I went to the Valpo game, every High Schooler sitting around me was on their device. There were 8 kids in my group alone (none in High School), 4 of them were on their devices for almost the entire game. I think if we are going to make money, it's not about putting butts in seats or seeking donations from a fan base that's more about education then sports, it's about figuring out a way to harness that online trend and getting them there. The consumption of media and sports is changing and the further in front we are as a university the better position we are in to get the donations we seek and attract the kind of students we need to keep our University Name in good standing while we all seek jobs. The guy seems to be doing a good job with the funds he's given. Maybe sometimes you need that bean counter in charge to keep us all responsible, seeing we are in a state that is totally irresponsible.
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isuquinndog
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:34 am

The way to get some adults looking at their device is to legalize online gambling in this state and then you can gamble on a play by play basis as the game is happening in front of you.

That's how you start to make money from them.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
Buffett
Sophomore
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am

Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
TheTruth
Sophomore
Posts: 202
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:03 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:07 am
ISU athletics are bifurcated by having the two main sports in different conferences with a different level of play which eliminates scheduling, marketing, and promotional synergies. ISU basketball and football can not change conferences for the better if it was ever desired as there is no place to go. The football program and basketball programs are fighting against each other for limited resources to the detriment of each other. Those programs would each be better off without the other (example ... best thing that ever happened to Wichita basketball was their AD department getting rid of fcs football or the best thing that ever happened to Creighton basketball was eliminating their football)
It's important to understand that Illinois State basketball is not put at a competitive disadvantage because Illinois State also has a football program. The basketball program is put at a disadvantage because the football program is not being run anywhere near its potential.
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:07 am
Fan interest wanning and fundraising has been poor. ISU athletics one of the 50 Worst performing athletic departments as measured by subsidy percentage. The ISU athletic department profile is even more disappointing when looking at the profile on the university side. Some people compare ISU to NIU when talking about athletic department success. Why?.... as that is such a low hurdle and a disservice to the university side. ISU should find meaningful comparable national universities when evaluating their athletics and wake up to reality as to how underperforming athletics have been for ISU and then formulate a long term strategy to fix, which could take several decades.
Agreed, Illinois State needs to start evaluating itself comparable universities.... not the schools they mainly compete against now.
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:07 am
As an side I too have shifted my donations away from ISU athletics. I also regret any donation I have made in the last 3 years as the department has no long term vision, is currently poorly lead and donations are a waste of money, IMO.
The athletic dept does appear even more rudderless than in past decades, I'm not surprised if people feel that donating at this point is just flushing good money down the toilet.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:29 am

Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
If Matt was the best candidate for the job, I would have been fine with it. However, when you don't open the position up, call it an "emergency hire", and never interview anyone else, it looks bad. Plus, on top of that the fact Matt wasn't doing his job well made things worse.

It's not just hiring Matt. The new ticket office hire has been a huge bust (might be the worst department in the athletic department).

Plus, in three key positions (Assistant AD for Development and Marketing and Director of Marketing and Fan Experience) instead of getting someone with outside experience that would have new ideas and possible go outside ISU's comfort zone, he hires grad assistants that have stuck around. Those are big leaps in positions for people that basically have no experience outside of ISU.
Redbird60451
Freshman
Posts: 29
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:22 pm
Location: New Lenox

Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:41 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:34 am
The way to get some adults looking at their device is to legalize online gambling in this state and then you can gamble on a play by play basis as the game is happening in front of you.

That's how you start to make money from them.
:text-+1:

And then stick advertising on that page and double up income by the number of views received. It is going to be easier to do something along those lines then it will to get people in the stands, takes less man power and maybe even make more money.
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Redbird
Freshman
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:46 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm

Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
MadBird
Junior
Posts: 533
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:48 pm

Redbird60451 wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:27 am
I don't really know if firing the guy or whole department is what is needed. But I can tell you I went to the Valpo game, every High Schooler sitting around me was on their device. There were 8 kids in my group alone (none in High School), 4 of them were on their devices for almost the entire game. I think if we are going to make money, it's not about putting butts in seats or seeking donations from a fan base that's more about education then sports, it's about figuring out a way to harness that online trend and getting them there. The consumption of media and sports is changing and the further in front we are as a university the better position we are in to get the donations we seek and attract the kind of students we need to keep our University Name in good standing while we all seek jobs. The guy seems to be doing a good job with the funds he's given. Maybe sometimes you need that bean counter in charge to keep us all responsible, seeing we are in a state that is totally irresponsible.
A related observation made at the Wisconsin-Minnesota game last night. The UW games have become one endless "video show" on the mid-court board, "enhanced" regularly by loud pounding DJ music (the DJ sets up at the back of the student section) - music comes in all tastes, and this is not mine, not to say someone isn't enjoying it. The traditional pep band gets its turn, with rounds from the cheerleaders, but now the timeouts mostly involve roving cameras with crowd shots - the kiss-cam, the dance-cam, the flex your muscle cam, etc. - and posting of endless tweets and selfies from people at their first Badger game, with Dad on his birthday at the Badger game, etc. Every now and then a "game" for patrons during timeouts, making baskets, three point contest, you know, the traditional stuff.

Not sure I've conveyed it well, but my point was that the post from 60451 made me wonder about what UW is thinking about with the "game day experience" (how I hate that phrase and concept), that they feel the need to fill up nearly every minute there's no game action with visuals and pounding music, etc. I don't like it, I go to see the game. I'm old.

Also, you know, part of the reason there are fewer people is that the "on-line" trend HAS been harnessed, people would rather stay home and watch the game on their device or TV and don't seem to want to get up off their dead ass and go enjoy THE GAME. Meaning, the reliance on televising, or "devicing" on ESPN 3 or +, brings in revenue, replacing the old need to get fannies in the seats.

Thanks for listening . . . back to our regular programming. :x
Last edited by MadBird on Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm

Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm
Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
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Redbird
Freshman
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:46 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:56 pm

ricohill wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm
Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
I can, they did their jobs and now they are doing their jobs at other educational institutions because they are qualified to do so.
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isuquinndog
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 pm

No personal attacks. I've removed posts. Next is removing users. Knock it off.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
Buffett
Sophomore
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:02 pm

Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:56 pm
ricohill wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm


This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
I can, they did their jobs and now they are doing their jobs at other educational institutions because they are qualified to do so.
Matt can make sure the big donors get a Papa Johns pizza at Drake, he did nothing here.
Last edited by Buffett on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1584
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:05 pm

ricohill wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm
Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
Agree nepotism can’t be defended. It is wrong in many ways especially to moral of other employees. Try hiring your family in a department you manage in corporate America...you will he fired in a heart beat. What Lyons did as respects to hiring family for a department he manages is flat out wrong, IMO.

I actually find it shocking that ISU did not have controls in place to prevent Lyons from hiring his family.
Last edited by ChiRedbirdfan on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Redbird
Freshman
Posts: 18
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:05 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 pm
No personal attacks. I've removed posts. Next is removing users. Knock it off.
Then start doing it. The board has become a disgrace to ISU fans. The majority of this thread is fine because it argues the merit of LL and what he has or hasn't done in his job. That is fair game and can be discussed. You state no personal attacks but you allow arguments that personally attack people like LL without a valid argument.
Buffett
Sophomore
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:07 pm

Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:05 pm
isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 pm
No personal attacks. I've removed posts. Next is removing users. Knock it off.
Then start doing it. The board has become a disgrace to ISU fans. The majority of this thread is fine because it argues the merit of LL and what he has or hasn't done in his job. That is fair game and can be discussed. You state no personal attacks but you allow arguments that personally attack people like LL without a valid argument.
Then STEP OFF REDBIRD QUINN RUNS THIS JUST FINE
Last edited by Buffett on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:08 pm

Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:05 pm
isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:59 pm
No personal attacks. I've removed posts. Next is removing users. Knock it off.
Then start doing it. The board has become a disgrace to ISU fans. The majority of this thread is fine because it argues the merit of LL and what he has or hasn't done in his job. That is fair game and can be discussed. You state no personal attacks but you allow arguments that personally attack people like LL without a valid argument.
What has been a personal attack on Larry Lyons? I think pretty much all of the criticism has been based on reason and fact. Most of the Lyons defenders have been the ones not basing anything on fact other than they know him and like him.

This board is not a disgrace and it is only a message board. Plus, this is a topic of discussion that matters. Why should people support ISU athletics when the administration throws away that donation and does not put forth a quality product?
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1141
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:16 pm

Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:56 pm
ricohill wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm


This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
I can, they did their jobs and now they are doing their jobs at other educational institutions because they are qualified to do so.
i assume you are friends with the Lyons family to defend their work this strongly. LB doesn't work in athletics and Matt got the job at Drake because of his dad.

Anyone that thinks Matt Lyons raised $19 million dollars during his time here they are crazy. George O'leary thinks this bio stretches the truth.
https://godrakebulldogs.com/staff.aspx?staff=320
jwa123
Freshman
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:48 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:17 pm

Former season ticket holder for both football and basketball here. No longer am one as I moved out of state. If I still lived in Morton would I still be a season ticket holder for either sport? Probably not.

The observation that the 20 year absence from the NCAA is on target. Yes there have been some good seasons but clunkers as well. Against Valpo I told my wife that ISU was going to lose when they had a double digit lead in the second half. Good teams find a way to win bad teams find a way to lose. Do games like we have seen this season improve my or anyone else’s disposition?

Yes the football program went to the national championship game but seems to me has been on a gradual downhill slope since.

Is the answer fire Larry Lyons? Is the answer to keep Larry Lyons? I don’t know and I don’t care anymore. Is the answer fire the b-ball and football coach or to keep them? Frankly I don’t know and I don’t care.

Will I be making financial donations to the athletic department in the future? Nope. Apathy has set in.
Last edited by jwa123 on Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
SgtHulka
Senior
Posts: 1261
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:17 pm

ricohill wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:51 pm
Redbird wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 12:31 pm
Buffett wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:45 am
Lyons putting his family on the pay roll, you cant defend that.
This board is a dumpster fire for comments like this. Climb back under your rock and continue donating your $500 a year while making sure you make up that entire donation up at the hog roast. I hope that the next athletic department administration treats you with the same disdain that you treat the current administration with. You think that because you kick a couple bucks to WSF and you have an anonymous username on a board that you can throw around any kind of filth comment you please. This board gives ISU fans a bad name.
As I answer these questions constantly and Quinn can attest, I do not work for the AD and I never have.
Are you sure you don’t work for the athletic department? Because that is exactly how they feel about/treat donors that donate $500. Which is why their donor base is shrinking and will lose out on potential bigger donations down the road.

Also, why is it such a bad comment? Most universities now have rules against that type of hiring and have them for good reason.
The $500 fans are likely $500 fans because that is what they can afford. Those $500 fans become multiple thousand dollar fans over years and years. And they do get treated that way like you say. Worse yet, become known as a guy who runs a message board where other fans can voice their opinion and you become even more than worthless to some in the administration.
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