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Fire Larry Lyons

The place to talk Illinois State overall
TheTruth
Freshman
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:01 pm

Lyons is a bean counter, not an athletic director. He should be replaced ASAP. Pointing out that Larry really only “accomplished” things with student fees and existing funds does not really a defense of Larry, make. I’ve been saying for some time that we need a near (if not total) purging of athletic dept staff, and I’ve been proven correct repeatedly.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:08 pm

TheTruth wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:01 pm
Lyons is a bean counter, not an athletic director. He should be replaced ASAP. Pointing out that Larry really only “accomplished” things with student fees and existing funds does not really a defense of Larry, make. I’ve been saying for some time that we need a near (if not total) purging of athletic dept staff, and I’ve been proven correct repeatedly.
Agree with this 100 percent.

Larry is a major problem, but all of the people around him are just as much of an issue. Too many people hanging on collecting paychecks and too many under qualified people not able to get things done like they should be at a high level D1 program.
bb fan
Senior
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:36 pm

Anyone that thinks Lyons has had nothing to do with any capital product executed in the last 20 years simply has no clue, or is outright ignoring facts known by anybody working or associated with our athletics department. Period. Lyons has put all of these deals together. I am not trying to defend or compliement Lyons. Just stating what is plainly clear.

95% of all university athletics programs survive by student fees and / or other university subsidies. But here, only our AD is critized for running a department with these resources. Anymore, any university president will tell you this has become the absolute most important skill of any AD -- making these funds work for the department the best, most creative and efficient way. Any there are many in this business that will tell you Lyons is one of the best at this. And why Dietz likes him as much as he does.

I tried. I gave a you an honest, objective analysis. You have picked and chose some stuff as expected. And that's fine. However, anybody that would still say we are experienced some sort of "dumpster fire" has no clue what such a situation would be out there. And there are plenty athletics departments struggling mightily. But we are not one of them.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:49 pm

If the plan is to compete off student fees, we might as well drop down to division 2 or 3. If Dietz just wants someone to balance the budget in athletics, he should be gone as well.

You have to raise momey and every year pathetically begging for a lead donation for the indoor practice facility in the pantagraph isn’t going to get it done.

What a second rate plan to accomplish nothing great. Small time thinking equals small time results.
Birdman07
Freshman
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:33 am

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:03 pm

Sell beer and stadium naming rights. That'll do something.
bb fan
Senior
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm

Oh, so now we should dump Dietz. Heck, let's just close the whole place down. Why stop at d2 or 3. We are doomed. The end is near. Sheesh.

I guess if that's the best you got for a comeback, so it goes.

I tried. Have a good evening, folks.
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:15 pm

bb fan wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:04 pm
Oh, so now we should dump Dietz. Heck, let's just close the whole place down. Why stop at d2 or 3. We are doomed. The end is near. Sheesh.

I guess if that's the best you got for a comeback, so it goes.

I tried. Have a good evening, folks.
I listed off a long list of failures based on fact and all you came with is everyone uses student fees...take a drive down to Champaign and see what it looks like when you raise money. Outside of football they compete at the same level. They aren’t just using student fees. You want to argue they are different from ISU, fine, but ISU is going nowhere with Lyons.

I don’t know your relationship with the athletic department, but the complete disaster every aspect has become is apparent to almost everyone.
bb fan
Senior
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:43 pm

I am a fan and alumnus, rico. I drive down to Champaign all the time. I have been on that campus many times. It's a completely different world. The revenue from the B10 Network alone. Your comparasions of UIUC to us tells me a lot about your acumen and knowledge of college athletics. I have given you my observations. You challenged me and I gave you a thoughtful analysis as I see it. I do talk to our ADs. and our university presidents over the years. As well as many others at other universities. Make no mistake, we have room for improvement. There is a lot to be done. I share my thoughts and concerns with these folks directly. We have staff with very strong skill sets that have moved many aspects of our athletics forward. We have some areas that need work. But overall, we are competitive. Our department is solid and on good footing and mover forward in several areas. That's how I see it.

I just wish we could get a freaking NCAA bid. Now if you could be any real help, you would provide some very specific ideas on getting that done. For me, I am weary of all of this again. See you around, Rico.
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isuquinndog
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:23 am

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:42 pm
It’s unfortunate, but so few couldn’t give a shit about programs that are successful. Unfortunately, it’s really only basketball and football that matter. FWIW, I think the softball team could be really good the next few years, but relatively few will ever actively support them.
:text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1:
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
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isuquinndog
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am

You are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think ISU can compete as an AD on the same level as any P5 conference team. The Big Ten Network gives each school for doing nothing else but playing their scheduled games $50 million a year. PER SCHOOL. It would take ISU decades to have $50 million in revenue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching ... 723b155bf2

Someone said we are a "high level D1" athletics department. Since when? We have to realize what we are, not what we all want. It's fine to have that goal, but to say we should be spending and raising money like we are P5 team is just not realistic.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!
ricohill
Senior
Posts: 1128
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am

bb fan wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:43 pm
I am a fan and alumnus, rico. I drive down to Champaign all the time. I have been on that campus many times. It's a completely different world. The revenue from the B10 Network alone. Your comparasions of UIUC to us tells me a lot about your acumen and knowledge of college athletics. I have given you my observations. You challenged me and I gave you a thoughtful analysis as I see it. I do talk to our ADs. and our university presidents over the years. As well as many others at other universities. Make no mistake, we have room for improvement. There is a lot to be done. I share my thoughts and concerns with these folks directly. We have staff with very strong skill sets that have moved many aspects of our athletics forward. We have some areas that need work. But overall, we are competitive. Our department is solid and on good footing and mover forward in several areas. That's how I see it.

I just wish we could get a freaking NCAA bid. Now if you could be any real help, you would provide some very specific ideas on getting that done. For me, I am weary of all of this again. See you around, Rico.
Sure the U of I argument was kind of lazy, but the greater point is they have an AD with vision that understands facilities and fundraising are huge. Facilities = Recruiting Success. If you argue against that then you might want to tell Nick Saban, Dabo Sweeney, and John Calapri they are wasting their money by building incredible practice facilities and athletic dorms for their players.

What has Larry Lyons done to make us better? Bb fan your argument seems to be Larry and the athletic department are successful because we haven't turned into EIU or WIU and he keeps the lights on. If the goal is to not become Eastern Illinois then he's done fine. However, if the goal is to become the next Gonzaga, Butler, Wichita State, Creighton, etc... (or become NDSU or SDSU in football) then we are failing miserably.

I fully expect some excuse why ISU can't do these things because that is what the Larry defenders always come up with, but look at what our peer institutions are building (and being done with private money).

SDSU
https://www.argusleader.com/story/sport ... /17114835/

https://www.statealum.com/s/1108/rd16/i ... calcid=948

NDSU
https://gobison.com/news/2018/5/23/gene ... ility.aspx

Loyola
http://loyolaphoenix.com/2018/02/loyola ... -facility/

The problem with ISU is we sat around for 6 years doing nothing while getting passed by. Now by the time we get a new AD that can raise money we will be behind on the next project.
Brick
Sophomore
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:32 am

We simply don’t have the wealth, the alumni base and the TV revenue that U if I has. We have to use what we do have as well as we can. If that’s mostly student fees then so be it. That’s reality. Doesn’t mean we can do better or quit trying anticipating the old “ok with mediocrity “ argument. Though I expect it! Think. bbfan made some solid points and I don’t see our administration as a dumpster fire. The folks there that I have personally interacted with are first class people. I don’t know Lyons but not laying our 20 year drought at his feet. He’s not the only AD we have had during that span. Hell I lost sleep over that game the other night. My Dad went to ISNU, I graduated from ISU as did both my kids. I BLEED red and white. I want us to succeed as much as anyone. Firing Lyons isn’t the answer in my opinion. Rock on Troops!
birdlife
Freshman
Posts: 193
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:22 am

does anyone know the revenue figures from the MVC network deal? didnt they just extend or renew after last season?
bombay
Sophomore
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:49 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:52 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am
You are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think ISU can compete as an AD on the same level as any P5 conference team. The Big Ten Network gives each school for doing nothing else but playing their scheduled games $50 million a year. PER SCHOOL. It would take ISU decades to have $50 million in revenue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching ... 723b155bf2

Someone said we are a "high level D1" athletics department. Since when? We have to realize what we are, not what we all want. It's fine to have that goal, but to say we should be spending and raising money like we are P5 team is just not realistic.

Where's the rebuttal for this realistic evaluation of funding?
bb fan
Senior
Posts: 917
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:56 am

Thinking about your analogy of UIUC, Rico, it is not only lazy, but silly. So, you say our athletics department is a "dumpster fire"? You know the last few years Illinois has had to pay millions chasing off coaches and AD's right? You have heard that they had major issues with coaches being sued for harrassment, right? And maybe you are familiar that they have skillfully turned both football and basketball into B10 doormats, correct? Yeah, that's what we should strive to be. What's next, Rico? Perhaps Bradley?

Look, I got back in the convo here because of your insulting words towards our program. You said folks took a break from the forums because our program is a "dumpster fire". I stopped, but hardly for the crap reason you describe. I took a break because I have grown tired of the nonsense some of you are posting here. It's mean, snarky and just wrong. Are we the best in the country. No. There is plenty of room for improvement, certainly. But there is a lot of good stuff happening as well.
RedbirdMan
Sophomore
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:11 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 am

bombay wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:52 am
isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am
You are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think ISU can compete as an AD on the same level as any P5 conference team. The Big Ten Network gives each school for doing nothing else but playing their scheduled games $50 million a year. PER SCHOOL. It would take ISU decades to have $50 million in revenue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching ... 723b155bf2

Someone said we are a "high level D1" athletics department. Since when? We have to realize what we are, not what we all want. It's fine to have that goal, but to say we should be spending and raising money like we are P5 team is just not realistic.

Where's the rebuttal for this realistic evaluation of funding?
ISU is never gonna have the funding or donations that a U of I has But they really don’t need that level of funding. Look at the payments that have to come out of the department compared to what someone like Lovie Smith or Brad Underwood make a year.
The complaint is that the athletic department hasn’t been proactive or forward thinking enough to improve our status as a university in athletics. The fact that we feel handcuffed to a coach that is clearly taking the program nowhere because there isn’t enough money to make things better is the example that should be used as evidence number one for things are being mismanaged.
Buffett
Sophomore
Posts: 200
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:23 am
ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:42 pm
It’s unfortunate, but so few couldn’t give a shit about programs that are successful. Unfortunately, it’s really only basketball and football that matter. FWIW, I think the softball team could be really good the next few years, but relatively few will ever actively support them.
:text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1:
While I got you here, KUDOS to the meat grinder big balled schedule of Red Bird softball on the schedule this year
Florida, USF, NC State, Notre Dame, Indiana, Purdue, Syracuse, LSU, Michigan, Arizona, Arizona State, San Diego, Utah State :clap: :clap:
ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1582
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:07 am

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:21 pm
It’s more complicated than discrediting Lyons for the MBB program being in the crapper, and crediting him for volleyball success. On a micro level, the department can claim some successes. But the big picture has been a failure under Lyons direction, unless nepotism is the measuring stick. Lyons destroyed his credibility by having Jared and Ivanka on the payroll.
This is exactly right. The state of ISU athletics are unhealthy long term if one analyzes the big picture. They Reside in a sinking conference as respects to competitive profile and membership. Successful athletic programs leave the comference and the MVC in turn raids lesser conferences for new athletic programs. This has been hallmark of the MVC going back to its existence. Also the MVC conference is divided by private schools that have different needs than the public university’s needs. Both sides work against each other.

ISU athletics are bifurcated by having the two main sports in different conferences with a different level of play which eliminates scheduling, marketing, and promotional synergies. ISU basketball and football can not change conferences for the better if it was ever desired as there is no place to go. The football program and basketball programs are fighting against each other for limited resources to the detriment of each other. Those programs would each be better off without the other (example ... best thing that ever happened to Wichita basketball was their AD department getting rid of fcs football or the best thing that ever happened to Creighton basketball was eliminating their football)

Fan interest wanning and fundraising has been poor. ISU athletics one of the 50 Worst performing athletic departments as measured by subsidy percentage. The ISU athletic department profile is even more disappointing when looking at the profile on the university side. Some people compare ISU to NIU when talking about athletic department success. Why?.... as that is such a low hurdle and a disservice to the university side. ISU should find meaningful comparable national universities when evaluating their athletics and wake up to reality as to how underperforming athletics have been for ISU and then formulate a long term strategy to fix, which could take several decades.

As an side I too have shifted my donations away from ISU athletics. I also regret any donation I have made in the last 3 years as the department has no long term vision, is currently poorly lead and donations are a waste of money, IMO.
bombay
Sophomore
Posts: 496
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:49 am

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:12 am

RedbirdMan wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:01 am
bombay wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:52 am
isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am
You are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think ISU can compete as an AD on the same level as any P5 conference team. The Big Ten Network gives each school for doing nothing else but playing their scheduled games $50 million a year. PER SCHOOL. It would take ISU decades to have $50 million in revenue.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching ... 723b155bf2

Someone said we are a "high level D1" athletics department. Since when? We have to realize what we are, not what we all want. It's fine to have that goal, but to say we should be spending and raising money like we are P5 team is just not realistic.

Where's the rebuttal for this realistic evaluation of funding?
ISU is never gonna have the funding or donations that a U of I has But they really don’t need that level of funding. Look at the payments that have to come out of the department compared to what someone like Lovie Smith or Brad Underwood make a year.
The complaint is that the athletic department hasn’t been proactive or forward thinking enough to improve our status as a university in athletics. The fact that we feel handcuffed to a coach that is clearly taking the program nowhere because there isn’t enough money to make things better is the example that should be used as evidence number one for things are being mismanaged.
"We?" Nope. I'm not in favor of firing Muller. If I were an Illinois grad, I might have to ask if there were avenues to give brad underwood his $12.5 million buyout to get out from under the worst start since 1974. Of course, lovie has won 4 conference games in 3 seasons and he got a 2 year extension.

lol
TheTruth
Freshman
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 pm

Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:18 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:29 am
You are absolutely kidding yourselves if you think ISU can compete as an AD on the same level as any P5 conference team. The Big Ten Network gives each school for doing nothing else but playing their scheduled games $50 million a year. PER SCHOOL. It would take ISU decades to have $50 million in revenue.
Agreed! Not having relevant football really hurts Illinois State's ability to build the revenue streams and donor base that P5 or even G7 schools can. It's a shame too, because it didn't have to be this way.
When you have low expectations for Illinois State University, the history of its leadership looks much more palatable.
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