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TIMMY
Junior
Posts: 584
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am

SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:28 am
Total Red wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:04 am
SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:33 am


I've heard that many people are saying it
You should start a new thread if you're going to reopen the "Some vs. Many" debate. Everyone's going to want to weigh in on that one.
Many people are saying that is true
Wrong again Hulka. Some are saying it.
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RedbirdSF67
Freshman
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:34 pm

Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:26 am

Kolbe is the starter. Davis likely has a big arm which honestly is what Tre had over all others. Tre threw the deep ball effortlessly. None of our guys can likely throw it 50 yards down field without squaring up to do so. Big difference when a guy on the run can do that like Tre. Guessing Davis can also, but there is so much to learn for him, he will be a solid backup in my mind second half of the year. Kolbe, Smith and Davis to start the year. Broadnax and Hatfield would make great skilled position players with their speed. Hey, we all know a dude making $10M in the NFL because an ISU coach saw the potential and converted him to receiver!

SgtHulka
Junior
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:49 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am
SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:28 am
Total Red wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:04 am


You should start a new thread if you're going to reopen the "Some vs. Many" debate. Everyone's going to want to weigh in on that one.
Many people are saying that is true
Wrong again Hulka. Some are saying it.
it's being said that you are wrong
RIP Frank Y, Mother Hulka, Berg, Ray F, Jim and Janet T
Image

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 am

Read scouting reports on Davis ... whether or not he sees starter reps this season ... this signing just ensured we are setting up for another dominant offensive season in 2019 .. lot of quality depth lined up within JR and SO classes. Going to be like 2014-15 again around Hancock ... just need our defense to find itself sooner than later.

Assuming we go 2-1 in OOC to start season, our MVFC opener is on road against MoST ... yes we travel there again due to fact we can't play all 9 conf games ... but this the MUST win game that buys our defense 5 weeks to find itself and be ready for MVFC gauntlet that follows. Offense should be able to chew up clock and 1st downs regularly to help defense stay fresh .. but they will eventually have to be ready to hold their own as we face top tier conf teams.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

Adunk33
Senior
Posts: 1434
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:08 am

Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 am
Assuming we go 2-1 in OOC to start season, our MVFC opener is on road against MoST ... yes we travel there again due to fact we can't play all 9 conf games ... but this the MUST win game that buys our defense 5 weeks to find itself and be ready for MVFC gauntlet that follows. Offense should be able to chew up clock and 1st downs regularly to help defense stay fresh .. but they will eventually have to be ready to hold their own as we face top tier conf teams.
I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am

Adunk33 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 am
Assuming we go 2-1 in OOC to start season, our MVFC opener is on road against MoST ... yes we travel there again due to fact we can't play all 9 conf games ... but this the MUST win game that buys our defense 5 weeks to find itself and be ready for MVFC gauntlet that follows. Offense should be able to chew up clock and 1st downs regularly to help defense stay fresh .. but they will eventually have to be ready to hold their own as we face top tier conf teams.
I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837
duly and painfully noted ... 2-1 OOC equals 1-1 OOC ... 7-4 overall equals 6-4 overall. So we could finish 5-3 in MVFC (top 3 or 4) and possibly stay home for playoffs ... and then all eyes turned to AD Lyons.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

Metamoron
Sophomore
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:31 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:04 am

:roll:
Who obviously scheduled this game with no input and complete opposition from Coach Spack.

User avatar
Chi-bird
Sophomore
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:20 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am
Adunk33 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 am
Assuming we go 2-1 in OOC to start season, our MVFC opener is on road against MoST ... yes we travel there again due to fact we can't play all 9 conf games ... but this the MUST win game that buys our defense 5 weeks to find itself and be ready for MVFC gauntlet that follows. Offense should be able to chew up clock and 1st downs regularly to help defense stay fresh .. but they will eventually have to be ready to hold their own as we face top tier conf teams.
I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837
duly and painfully noted ... 2-1 OOC equals 1-1 OOC ... 7-4 overall equals 6-4 overall. So we could finish 5-3 in MVFC (top 3 or 4) and possibly stay home for playoffs ... and then all eyes turned to AD Lyons.
My guess is they took a chance at saving as much $$$ as possible, and figured that in the grand scheme of things....the certainty ($) along with a chance to still make the playoffs (The take 24 teams for crying out loud) makes it worth it. Especially considering this is a rebuilding year anyway. I mean, if we go 7-4 and don't make the playoffs, do the fans really care that much? Nothing is special about a 7-4 team. Is a beat down of Butler, Valpo or Dayton that much more interesting? No. sure it "counts" as a win, but not really. I'm sure some don't count it. If we saved a lot of money and reinvest it in the program, and still make the playoffs (like good teams should), then it's a good move. If this was a year-in and year-out scheduling strategy, then I'd have a problem with it. Overall, however- I appreciate the schedule and look forward to games with No. Az, Colorado State, and NIU.

User avatar
Chi-bird
Sophomore
Posts: 389
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:20 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am
Adunk33 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:42 am
Assuming we go 2-1 in OOC to start season, our MVFC opener is on road against MoST ... yes we travel there again due to fact we can't play all 9 conf games ... but this the MUST win game that buys our defense 5 weeks to find itself and be ready for MVFC gauntlet that follows. Offense should be able to chew up clock and 1st downs regularly to help defense stay fresh .. but they will eventually have to be ready to hold their own as we face top tier conf teams.
I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837
duly and painfully noted ... 2-1 OOC equals 1-1 OOC ... 7-4 overall equals 6-4 overall. So we could finish 5-3 in MVFC (top 3 or 4) and possibly stay home for playoffs ... and then all eyes turned to AD Lyons.
My guess is they took a chance at saving as much $$$ as possible, and figured that in the grand scheme of things....the certainty ($) along with a chance to still make the playoffs (The take 24 teams for crying out loud) makes it worth it. Especially considering this is a rebuilding year anyway. I mean, if we go 7-4 and don't make the playoffs, do the fans really care that much? Nothing is special about a 7-4 team. Is a beat down of Butler, Valpo or Dayton that much more interesting? No. sure it "counts" as a win, but not really. I'm sure some don't count it. If we saved a lot of money and reinvest it in the program, and still make the playoffs (like good teams should), then it's a good move. If this was a year-in and year-out scheduling strategy, then I'd have a problem with it. Overall, however- I appreciate the schedule and look forward to games with No. Az, Colorado State, and NIU.

rdt99
Freshman
Posts: 110
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:20 am

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:27 am

Next year we have 6 home games and 6 away games. I like that!

ekeyfanclub
Freshman
Posts: 192
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:06 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:14 pm

Metamoron wrote::roll:
Who obviously scheduled this game with no input and complete opposition from Coach Spack.
Exactly

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:16 pm

ekeyfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:14 pm
Metamoron wrote::roll:
Who obviously scheduled this game with no input and complete opposition from Coach Spack.
Exactly

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Might have blown his budget and leverage signing all those new coaches... we did really well on that front. Plus we blew budget last year with no FBS game, plus had to fly to NAU, plus had just 5 home games. So I get the budget issue .. but I don't care. We needed the AD to have used leverage with donor base to get funds to pay a MEAC or SWAC team to come to Hancock. If Spack conceded to issue because he got coaches we couldn't otherwise afford .. fine. But Lyons should have made sure he could have overcome this and not put Spack in this position. There's no way Spack said it doesn't matter.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:00 pm

Chi-bird wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:20 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am
Adunk33 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am


I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837
duly and painfully noted ... 2-1 OOC equals 1-1 OOC ... 7-4 overall equals 6-4 overall. So we could finish 5-3 in MVFC (top 3 or 4) and possibly stay home for playoffs ... and then all eyes turned to AD Lyons.
My guess is they took a chance at saving as much $$$ as possible, and figured that in the grand scheme of things....the certainty ($) along with a chance to still make the playoffs (The take 24 teams for crying out loud) makes it worth it. Especially considering this is a rebuilding year anyway. I mean, if we go 7-4 and don't make the playoffs, do the fans really care that much? Nothing is special about a 7-4 team. Is a beat down of Butler, Valpo or Dayton that much more interesting? No. sure it "counts" as a win, but not really. I'm sure some don't count it. If we saved a lot of money and reinvest it in the program, and still make the playoffs (like good teams should), then it's a good move. If this was a year-in and year-out scheduling strategy, then I'd have a problem with it. Overall, however- I appreciate the schedule and look forward to games with No. Az, Colorado State, and NIU.
YSU made the title game in 2016 after an 8-3 non-con and winning a play-in round game. They finished 3rd in the MVC standings. They won a lot of close games that year by 3, 4, and 7 points. In our conference, 7-4 overall record (with 7 D-1 wins) should lead to the playoffs.

If this NAIA game costs us the playoffs, the administrator at the top should have his role called into question.

I'm really worried about contracts we sign - not only scheduling but as a whole. Considering the leverage some coaches have had in their contracts despite not having the resumes to obtain such language, I have to call into question the contracts and timing decisions of when we terminate them. We are paying coaches much more not to coach than to actually coach their final seasons.

If we want to talk about scheduling StXU to save money, why not play a second FBS school for the payday so the program has all that money? Add in an FBS win and we have a much greater shot at the playoffs than going 6-4 with a 7th win against SxU.

User avatar
RBFANTOO
Freshman
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:35 am
Location: Anywhere but Bradley

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:09 pm

SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:49 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am
SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:28 am


Many people are saying that is true
Wrong again Hulka. Some are saying it.
it's being said that you are wrong
Who says :?: :?: :?:
Redbird Nation Rising

redbirds2000
Freshman
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:02 pm

Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:41 pm

Chi-bird wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:20 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:41 am
Adunk33 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 am


I'm responding to this in the game schedule thread, for the sake of trying to stay on topic.
http://www.redbirdfan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=837
duly and painfully noted ... 2-1 OOC equals 1-1 OOC ... 7-4 overall equals 6-4 overall. So we could finish 5-3 in MVFC (top 3 or 4) and possibly stay home for playoffs ... and then all eyes turned to AD Lyons.
My guess is they took a chance at saving as much $$$ as possible, and figured that in the grand scheme of things....the certainty ($) along with a chance to still make the playoffs (The take 24 teams for crying out loud) makes it worth it. Especially considering this is a rebuilding year anyway. I mean, if we go 7-4 and don't make the playoffs, do the fans really care that much? Nothing is special about a 7-4 team. Is a beat down of Butler, Valpo or Dayton that much more interesting? No. sure it "counts" as a win, but not really. I'm sure some don't count it. If we saved a lot of money and reinvest it in the program, and still make the playoffs (like good teams should), then it's a good move. If this was a year-in and year-out scheduling strategy, then I'd have a problem with it. Overall, however- I appreciate the schedule and look forward to games with No. Az, Colorado State, and NIU.
This is a rebuilding year?? What have we been doing the past two years?

SgtHulka
Junior
Posts: 703
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:41 pm

Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:19 pm

RBFANTOO wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:09 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:49 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:06 am

Wrong again Hulka. Some are saying it.
it's being said that you are wrong
Who says :?: :?: :?:
Many people are saying it
RIP Frank Y, Mother Hulka, Berg, Ray F, Jim and Janet T
Image

Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:32 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:16 pm
ekeyfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:14 pm
Metamoron wrote::roll:
Who obviously scheduled this game with no input and complete opposition from Coach Spack.
Exactly

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Might have blown his budget and leverage signing all those new coaches... we did really well on that front. Plus we blew budget last year with no FBS game, plus had to fly to NAU, plus had just 5 home games. So I get the budget issue .. but I don't care. We needed the AD to have used leverage with donor base to get funds to pay a MEAC or SWAC team to come to Hancock. If Spack conceded to issue because he got coaches we couldn't otherwise afford .. fine. But Lyons should have made sure he could have overcome this and not put Spack in this position. There's no way Spack said it doesn't matter.
We have no problem paying for WBB and VB to fly charter to most places. With that being the case, we shouldn’t be as concerned with 1-2 football flight trips, especially greater distances. If we’re worried about expenses, start with flights to schools 4-5 hours away where we can bus. At least playing at NAU and home vs them gives us a quality non-con opponent each year of the deal.

As far as coach signings, two of them had good experience but were out of the game for a year. I hope we didn’t necessarily pay top of the market. I’m guessing Beathard commanded more than we were paying Dicken. Our new DC may also be making less than Nowinsky.

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:30 am

Reggie Redbird wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:32 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:16 pm
ekeyfanclub wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:14 pm
Exactly

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Might have blown his budget and leverage signing all those new coaches... we did really well on that front. Plus we blew budget last year with no FBS game, plus had to fly to NAU, plus had just 5 home games. So I get the budget issue .. but I don't care. We needed the AD to have used leverage with donor base to get funds to pay a MEAC or SWAC team to come to Hancock. If Spack conceded to issue because he got coaches we couldn't otherwise afford .. fine. But Lyons should have made sure he could have overcome this and not put Spack in this position. There's no way Spack said it doesn't matter.
We have no problem paying for WBB and VB to fly charter to most places. With that being the case, we shouldn’t be as concerned with 1-2 football flight trips, especially greater distances. If we’re worried about expenses, start with flights to schools 4-5 hours away where we can bus. At least playing at NAU and home vs them gives us a quality non-con opponent each year of the deal.

As far as coach signings, two of them had good experience but were out of the game for a year. I hope we didn’t necessarily pay top of the market. I’m guessing Beathard commanded more than we were paying Dicken. Our new DC may also be making less than Nowinsky.
except budgets are all relative to each sport .. football has way more coaches, schollies, and other expenses. My only point is .. I accept that we have budget constraints and that football is probably teetering into red last (scheduling issues above) and this year (speculating on coaches hired), and forgot that we had to arrange financing of the new turf.

So I don't think Lyons is stupid, nor do I think Spack said playing STX is fine with him ... but I am speculating/assuming we didn't shop the STX game harder because of budgetary concerns .. and based on that, Spack may have backed off. But assuming this is the case, Lyon's should have established relationship with big donors to help bail him out of this situation to pay for SWAC/MEAC game /.. knowing there are serious playoff implications .. especially in a year we are rebuilding defense.

Ironically WIU did exact same thing with exact same STX game they had scheduled last year ... except they took a road trip at a D-I school, in place of a home game against STX. WIU fixed it, we did not.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

Reggie Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:30 am
except budgets are all relative to each sport .. football has way more coaches, schollies, and other expenses. My only point is .. I accept that we have budget constraints and that football is probably teetering into red last (scheduling issues above) and this year (speculating on coaches hired), and forgot that we had to arrange financing of the new turf.

So I don't think Lyons is stupid, nor do I think Spack said playing STX is fine with him ... but I am speculating/assuming we didn't shop the STX game harder because of budgetary concerns .. and based on that, Spack may have backed off. But assuming this is the case, Lyon's should have established relationship with big donors to help bail him out of this situation to pay for SWAC/MEAC game /.. knowing there are serious playoff implications .. especially in a year we are rebuilding defense.

Ironically WIU did exact same thing with exact same STX game they had scheduled last year ... except they took a road trip at a D-I school, in place of a home game against STX. WIU fixed it, we did not.
Fourth, I always appreciate your insight and commitment to Redbird football. I enjoy reading your posts because you bring up good points, propose common-sense solutions, etc.

I think in bold is very important. We just do not have enough donors who can move the needle. If we needed $100k or $250k for something, do we have anybody cultivated who can help make that much of a difference? I'm not saying we need the Koch Brothers in Wichita to fund Gregg Marshall's contracts or a T. Boone Pickens to fund a $200-$300 million facilities renovation at Oklahoma State.

Did anyone reach out to a group of boosters (ex. 10 generous ones) and say, "Would you be willing to make a 1-time gift of $2,500 or $5,000 to help draft a quality home opponent? Or would you be willing to help underwrite project X so we can reallocate those funds for a D-1 home opponent?" If that doesn't work, I'm sure you could have found a larger group of boosters (ex. 25-50) willing to help and pony up amounts between $250-$1,000 to help fund a better opponent.

Major fundraising as a whole concerns me, as do other things (scheduling, contracts decision timing). I guess if we can't afford to raise funds to buy one FCS non-con home game, we certainly can't expect to make significant progress towards a transformational indoor facility.

MadBird
Sophomore
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:50 pm
Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:43 am

Reggie Redbird wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:15 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:30 am
except budgets are all relative to each sport .. football has way more coaches, schollies, and other expenses. My only point is .. I accept that we have budget constraints and that football is probably teetering into red last (scheduling issues above) and this year (speculating on coaches hired), and forgot that we had to arrange financing of the new turf.

So I don't think Lyons is stupid, nor do I think Spack said playing STX is fine with him ... but I am speculating/assuming we didn't shop the STX game harder because of budgetary concerns .. and based on that, Spack may have backed off. But assuming this is the case, Lyon's should have established relationship with big donors to help bail him out of this situation to pay for SWAC/MEAC game /.. knowing there are serious playoff implications .. especially in a year we are rebuilding defense.

Ironically WIU did exact same thing with exact same STX game they had scheduled last year ... except they took a road trip at a D-I school, in place of a home game against STX. WIU fixed it, we did not.
Fourth, I always appreciate your insight and commitment to Redbird football. I enjoy reading your posts because you bring up good points, propose common-sense solutions, etc.

I think in bold is very important. We just do not have enough donors who can move the needle. If we needed $100k or $250k for something, do we have anybody cultivated who can help make that much of a difference? I'm not saying we need the Koch Brothers in Wichita to fund Gregg Marshall's contracts or a T. Boone Pickens to fund a $200-$300 million facilities renovation at Oklahoma State.

Did anyone reach out to a group of boosters (ex. 10 generous ones) and say, "Would you be willing to make a 1-time gift of $2,500 or $5,000 to help draft a quality home opponent? Or would you be willing to help underwrite project X so we can reallocate those funds for a D-1 home opponent?" If that doesn't work, I'm sure you could have found a larger group of boosters (ex. 25-50) willing to help and pony up amounts between $250-$1,000 to help fund a better opponent.

Major fundraising as a whole concerns me, as do other things (scheduling, contracts decision timing). I guess if we can't afford to raise funds to buy one FCS non-con home game, we certainly can't expect to make significant progress towards a transformational indoor facility.
I don't pretend to understand the inside-out of athletics funding, other than the dough I've been ponying up for season tickets and donations to ISU, Wisconsin and Marquette over the years -- that being said, hard to believe, or sad to believe, we can't tap a few guys for that kind of help. Kevin Glenn? Cam Meredith? Nate Palmer? I'm forgetting a guy or two there playing pro ball with contracts. Maybe it's asking too much, I just don't know.

On the other hand, on the plus side, maybe Spack simply expects to be 10-1 or 9-2 this season and the St. X game won't matter ?? :D

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