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St Xavier game .. DUMP IT !!

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fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:01 pm

Now that the dust has mostly settled with all the coaching changes, we can all relax on that front .. by most accounts, we seem to have assembled an impressive staff in a very short tiemframe .. kudos to Spack, Lyons, et al.

Now it is time to move our attention to the most immediate threat to our 2018 playoff chances ... the St Xavier game. Given optimism about offense and skepticism on defense due to all the starters lost .. odds are, we are going to be lucky to win 7 games, especially with us getting FBS game back at Colorado St (7-5). But if one of those wins are St Xavier, then 7-4 is really 6-4 .. and then we will be a bubble team, and St Xavier game would be to blame if we don't get the bid.

DUMP this game asap !!!
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

dpdoughbird06
Freshman
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:03 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:01 pm
Now that the dust has mostly settled with all the coaching changes, we can all relax on that front .. by most accounts, we seem to have assembled an impressive staff in a very short tiemframe .. kudos to Spack, Lyons, et al.

Now it is time to move our attention to the most immediate threat to our 2018 playoff chances ... the St Xavier game. Given optimism about offense and skepticism on defense due to all the starters lost .. odds are, we are going to be lucky to win 7 games, especially with us getting FBS game back at Colorado St (7-5). But if one of those wins are St Xavier, then 7-4 is really 6-4 .. and then we will be a bubble team, and St Xavier game would be to blame if we don't get the bid.

DUMP this game asap !!!
I don't care if you have to issue tax exempt bonds to meet an FCS team's price to come here or pass the hat around the End Zone Club to avoid these dire straits: dump this game!

If we are "big time" as we always hear, we do not play an exhibition game when we're looking to build the best playoff resume possible. None of our peers have been reduced to this indignity. To think we season ticket holders actually end up paying good money for this game.

Bump this thread every few weeks until STX is off our schedule.

Bender
Freshman
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:58 pm

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:10 pm

In reference to a past thread about this topic, East Tennessee St released their 2018 schedule this week. In week 1 they have a home game against D2 Mars Hill with no actual date set for that game. They still seem to be a viable option to fix this problem.

Redbird78
Freshman
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:32 pm

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:16 pm

Bender wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:10 pm
In reference to a past thread about this topic, East Tennessee St released their 2018 schedule this week. In week 1 they have a home game against D2 Mars Hill with no actual date set for that game. They still seem to be a viable option to fix this problem.
Larry/ Brock: Go for it!

cubird
Freshman
Posts: 192
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:01 am

Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:34 pm

It is all about the $. Apparently, need a no return home game to balance the books.

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Chi-bird
Sophomore
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:16 am

If St. Xavier is going to be coming to B/N for a football matchup, it had better be to Illinois Wesleyan.

Dump this game is right.

DannyCooksey
Junior
Posts: 524
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:27 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:34 am

I don't recall the thread from a couple months ago. But I emailed Mr. Lyons about dumping this dogshit game and i never got a reply.

JHBird
Junior
Posts: 573
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:37 am

Chi-bird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:16 am
If St. Xavier is going to be coming to B/N for a football matchup, it had better be to Illinois Wesleyan.

Dump this game is right.
It would be more interesting to just play Illinois Wesleyan instead. I would bet we would get a lot of their fans paying to attend at least.

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:20 am

cubird wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:34 pm
It is all about the $. Apparently, need a no return home game to balance the books.
that would be discouraging if it came down to just money .. WIU did exact same thing this past season .. and with same St Xavier team, no less. They had St Xavier scheduled as a home game to make sure they filled the schedule .. I guess NAIA 11th game is better than having just 10 games,. But they apparently worked like hell to find a replacement game and did .. as a result, all 3 OOC games were on road this year and it cost them some money.

But they got it done .. and they are nowhere near as financially sound as ISU. I know ISU is smart about money and that is why we are doing so well financially .. they don't make stupid financial decisions. But this would be a REALLY stupid financial decision for school and football program to not buy out of this useless game .. really incredibly stupid.

AD Lyons will be rightly crucified if we finish 7-4 and don't make the playoffs in 2018. So go to President Dietz and tell him we need to blow the budget. This is no brainer decision to lose some money if we have to .. and truth be told, football budget may not be able to afford to, but the school can easily afford this. Hell, put an earmark on football revenue for next 5 years to pay it back if you have to.

But AD Lyons need to dump this game .. period.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:23 pm

by the way, if we are 6-4, I think we "should" still be playoff team because that would mean we likely went 1-1 non-conf and 5-3 conf .. which would mean we were probably top 4 in MVFC. But we could very possibly be tied for 4th and left out if MVFC doesn't get 5 teams in playoffs and we're tied with a true 7-4 team .. even if we deserve a bid as 5th best MVFC team .. 6-4 is hard to argue a case, even if deserved .. they'll just say, why on earth did you schedule a stupid NAIA game ? You only have 6 wins, so you're out.

And 6-5 = 5-5 .. and we stay home even if we're a top 20 level team.

I don't want to take either of those chances .. and AD Lyons shouldn't either.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

dpdoughbird06
Freshman
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:28 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:23 pm
by the way, if we are 6-4, I think we "should" still be playoff team because that would mean we likely went 1-1 non-conf and 5-3 conf .. which would mean we were probably top 4 in MVFC. But we could very possibly be tied for 4th and left out if MVFC doesn't get 5 teams in playoffs and we're tied with a true 7-4 team .. even if we deserve a bid as 5th best MVFC team .. 6-4 is hard to argue a case, even if deserved .. they'll just say, why on earth did you schedule a stupid NAIA game ? You only have 6 wins, so you're out.

And 6-5 = 5-5 .. and we stay home even if we're a top 20 level team.

I don't want to take either of those chances .. and AD Lyons shouldn't either.
WIU dumped STX game and made playoffs. Not a shoe-in had they not done so. I'll keep holding my breath for ETSU, since we haven't heard of any other viable last-minute options.

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StLRedbird
Sophomore
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:38 pm

This is starting to indicate tone-deafness in the AD.

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Chi-bird
Sophomore
Posts: 390
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:32 pm

Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:46 pm

JHBird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:37 am
Chi-bird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:16 am
If St. Xavier is going to be coming to B/N for a football matchup, it had better be to Illinois Wesleyan.

Dump this game is right.
It would be more interesting to just play Illinois Wesleyan instead. I would bet we would get a lot of their fans paying to attend at least.
It would be much more interesting.

dpdoughbird06
Freshman
Posts: 182
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:19 am

I'm amazed any insurance carrier would touch this game on the St Xavier side.

As Recon (who once coached on Spack's defensive staff, so he'd know) put it: "This is dangerous. Somebody is going to get hurt. Bad."

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am

I didn't realize this until today, but their program has slipped since 5-10 years ago when they were top 5 most years in NAIA and could probably play top 10 in D-II back then. But they have slipped considerably from great NAIA team to just good.

Looked at their roster .. Guestimating we will have 10-30 lb advantage at 90% of the 2 deep positions.

Our DBs are almost the size of the LBers. Their LBers (mostly 180-210 lbs) and DBs (170-195) will not be able to bring down our RBs (215 , 225 , 235 lbs) without full on gang tackling every run play, that is assuming they contain our RBs .. our RB yards after first hit are going to be off the charts.

This won't be pretty and yes, it will be dangerous. Dump the game.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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Virginia Redbird
Sophomore
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:51 pm
Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:04 pm

JHBird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:37 am
Chi-bird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 8:16 am
If St. Xavier is going to be coming to B/N for a football matchup, it had better be to Illinois Wesleyan.

Dump this game is right.
It would be more interesting to just play Illinois Wesleyan instead. I would bet we would get a lot of their fans paying to attend at least.
I was at the game the last time ISU played IWU. My brother played for IWU and while he was a 3 year starter for the Titans, 1969 was his Freshman year and he did not see much game action this day at Hancock Field. The game drew 15,000 fans and ended with a 27-6 Redbird victory. The Titans fought hard but the game was really not as close as the score indicated. The ISU program is light years away from what it was in 1969 and while IWU maintains a solid football program a game now would be non-competitive I would think. Probably be local fan interest for certain but DIII players would just be sorely mismatched against an FCS squad. I don't like the St. Xavier game either. This thread just brought back some memories of attending my very first ISU game...although I was rooting that day for my brother and the Titans. You know...blood is thicker than...

http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/re ... 002e0.html
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:07 pm

StLRedbird wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:38 pm
This is starting to indicate tone-deafness in the AD.
i hope not .. maybe just needed to bring "closure" to posting a 2018 schedule while they looked for suitable 3rd non-conf game. Hoping it is just stop gap filler and AD Lyons is still actively looking and trying to avoid a home & home deal.

Maybe they already have 50-100k contingent buyout in place with STX while we look for home only game.

I can hope that .. can't I ?

p.s. Larry ... the window is closing every day.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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Chi-bird
Sophomore
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:20 pm

My guess would be that they are actively trying to replace it, but aren't going to come out and say that as it would also hurt their negotiating position with other schools. (An ETSU has to believe that although we don't love a St. X game, we are fine with it if need be).

I do remember the 1991 season opener (or was it 1990) when we needed a last second field goal as time expired to beat St. Francis out of Kankakee. At the time, I didn't quite understand the difference in levels (I was in junior high) but I did remember feeling embarrassed that we needed all 60 minutes to beat them.

MadBird
Sophomore
Posts: 424
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:49 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am
I didn't realize this until today, but their program has slipped since 5-10 years ago when they were top 5 most years in NAIA and could probably play top 10 in D-II back then. But they have slipped considerably from great NAIA team to just good.

Looked at their roster .. Guestimating we will have 10-30 lb advantage at 90% of the 2 deep positions.

Our DBs are almost the size of the LBers. Their LBers (mostly 180-210 lbs) and DBs (170-195) will not be able to bring down our RBs (215 , 225 , 235 lbs) without full on gang tackling every run play, that is assuming they contain our RBs .. our RB yards after first hit are going to be off the charts.

This won't be pretty and yes, it will be dangerous. Dump the game.
Well, I'm fully behind not playing this game, don't get me wrong.

But my read of their roster was a little different. They've got some "smaller" guys in some of the OL and DL positions, but they also have some 300 pounders there. Their starting line-up in last years playoffs had a couple 220 lb LB's. RB was around 190 or 200. Most of their guys are Chicago Catholic League or suburban guys, so they've played against the kind of guys we'll be lining up, and even more (ie. guys who are in the Big 10+ or similar). So, you know what I'm saying, you play for Brother Rice and are a 250 lb OL who goes to St. Xav's and you line up against Mount Carmel's 290 lb DT who's at Minnesota. So, they aren't going to be intimidated or scared or even in danger of "getting hurt" playing against our guys from the burbs or playoff teams, etc.

Still . . . . . gotta get a "real" opponent in here.

fourthandshort
Senior
Posts: 1536
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:52 am

MadBird wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:49 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:33 am
I didn't realize this until today, but their program has slipped since 5-10 years ago when they were top 5 most years in NAIA and could probably play top 10 in D-II back then. But they have slipped considerably from great NAIA team to just good.

Looked at their roster .. Guestimating we will have 10-30 lb advantage at 90% of the 2 deep positions.

Our DBs are almost the size of the LBers. Their LBers (mostly 180-210 lbs) and DBs (170-195) will not be able to bring down our RBs (215 , 225 , 235 lbs) without full on gang tackling every run play, that is assuming they contain our RBs .. our RB yards after first hit are going to be off the charts.

This won't be pretty and yes, it will be dangerous. Dump the game.
Well, I'm fully behind not playing this game, don't get me wrong.

But my read of their roster was a little different. They've got some "smaller" guys in some of the OL and DL positions, but they also have some 300 pounders there. Their starting line-up in last years playoffs had a couple 220 lb LB's. RB was around 190 or 200. Most of their guys are Chicago Catholic League or suburban guys, so they've played against the kind of guys we'll be lining up, and even more (ie. guys who are in the Big 10+ or similar). So, you know what I'm saying, you play for Brother Rice and are a 250 lb OL who goes to St. Xav's and you line up against Mount Carmel's 290 lb DT who's at Minnesota. So, they aren't going to be intimidated or scared or even in danger of "getting hurt" playing against our guys from the burbs or playoff teams, etc.

Still . . . . . gotta get a "real" opponent in here.
Partly valid point .. and i didn't bother to look up who started or not. I was more interested in their general size across the board, so I looked at the range, not the exceptions at high end.

To me, that reflects not just on their depth, but also what they are used to playing against every day in practice .. and then even somewhat on game days.

Plus the fact that their program has slipped from 5+ years ago does not bode well .. if their 2010 team had played against our 2010 defense, they would have had a few moments to talk about .. but nothing even close to what D-II Central Missouri St did to us that year.

FYI .. I posted a St Xavier game "for sale" Ad on an AGS thread about ETSU schedule. One of their fans posted the schedule and was predicting 7-4 record .. to which I reminded him 7-4 = 6-4 when you beat a Mars Hill type team, So I told him to have his AD call ours and gave him Lyons contact info ... he said he would, like he actually knew him enough for their AD to read his email.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthr ... 8-Schedule
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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