Offensive Coaching Changes

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JHBird
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:06 am

Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:46 pm
JHBird wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:25 pm
I miss Demarco Corbin. I read he was dismissed from the team. It's a shame, but you have to trust the coaches on that. He could really run with power though...fun to watch.
I agree...I have no idea what the reason for his departure was but i really enjoyed watching Corbin run, except for the two fumbles at USD, I thought he was fun hard runner to watch.
I'm pretty sure he had a broken hand at that time, so it was hard to hold onto the ball. He seemed to break a decent amount of runs over 30 yards, which was incredible because of his size. It's sad to see a young guy with so much promise screw up. I never seen anything in the papers, like him being charged with a crime or anything. But he must've done something wrong.

MadBird
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:05 am

Thought about a new thread for this thought, then decided that was presumptuous on my part, but . . .

Don't you think it would be nice to have "more information" on the really significant turnover in offensive staff in the program? The most successful coach in ISU history (arguably) has lost almost the entire offensive staff - "offensive assistant" Corey Shandrick, and TE/HB coach Greg McLain seem to be staying - in one major "purge", only three years after a run to the national championship game.

I have great respect for Reinhardt and Kindred, and the Pantagraph (I subscribed by mail for the Sunday edition years ago, pre internet, just to stay in touch with ISU sports, for example). "In depth" stories are not all that common these days in smaller market dailies, I'd say. But don't you wonder what was going on in those meetings? Don't you wonder what dynamics brought about the decision to not just leave Clark and Dicken in place as position coaches and hire a new OC? Why did Conard leave? Etc. Not that any or all of those guys would be willing to just sit down and spill the beans, so to speak.

I know we all have our theories, we've aired out a few here. I'm not asking for "dirt", not interested in gossip, but you know, in "our little market" here, our little world, this is a story waiting to be told. Clark has been putting out pro caliber players almost every year. Our recruiting has been improving and we've all been feeling good about it and it's been receiving high ratings in the FCS "media", and surely Conard gets a fair share of the credit. Dicken is a "local hero". You can make the case that if Spack doesn't get this turned around, has a couple more mediocre years, he could be on the hot seat (a couple here have already poked at him). These are significant hires.

Okay, enough of that. But I'd love to sit down and read a story piecing all of that together. Maybe all the pieces are out there and I'm just too lazy to put it all together.

I'm just hoping Coach gets the spots filled up pronto.

Humdinger
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:46 pm

Chi-bird wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:30 pm
Maybe the "troll" is actually someone in the know....or maybe he's not. Let's not judge someone just because their post count. Many a great redbird fans and posters were moved to join the board based on wanting to post or respond to something that confrontational.

The points that this poster is making don't seem troll'ish to me. Actually seem pretty damn level-headed and a person that is in the know somewhat. Or at least knows the routine.

varedbird
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Thx Humdinger... What the hell is a troll anyhow?!

Im 700 miles away sitting at my computer in a redbird tshirt..
Not a troll
Just a fan. Havent missed a game in 6 years.

Level- headed..... Thats a matter of opinion

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StLRedbird
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Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:30 pm

MadBird wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:05 am
I have great respect for Reinhardt and Kindred, and the Pantagraph (I subscribed by mail for the Sunday edition years ago, pre internet, just to stay in touch with ISU sports, for example). "In depth" stories are not all that common these days in smaller market dailies, I'd say. But don't you wonder what was going on in those meetings? Don't you wonder what dynamics brought about the decision to not just leave Clark and Dicken in place as position coaches and hire a new OC? Why did Conard leave? Etc. Not that any or all of those guys would be willing to just sit down and spill the beans, so to speak.
I'd like to know. One thing we haven't discussed is how the conventional wisdom on these pages was that Spack needed a strong OC. It was a huge mistake to allow the co-OC situation to continue past the first year. I think that was probably hubris on Spack's part and he strikes me as a man on a mission this offseason. But, I would definitely like to know the inside story about how this all shook out.

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Chi-bird
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:03 am

StLRedbird wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:30 pm
MadBird wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:05 am
I have great respect for Reinhardt and Kindred, and the Pantagraph (I subscribed by mail for the Sunday edition years ago, pre internet, just to stay in touch with ISU sports, for example). "In depth" stories are not all that common these days in smaller market dailies, I'd say. But don't you wonder what was going on in those meetings? Don't you wonder what dynamics brought about the decision to not just leave Clark and Dicken in place as position coaches and hire a new OC? Why did Conard leave? Etc. Not that any or all of those guys would be willing to just sit down and spill the beans, so to speak.
I'd like to know. One thing we haven't discussed is how the conventional wisdom on these pages was that Spack needed a strong OC. It was a huge mistake to allow the co-OC situation to continue past the first year. I think that was probably hubris on Spack's part and he strikes me as a man on a mission this offseason. But, I would definitely like to know the inside story about how this all shook out.
Pantagraph coverage of ISU sports is often nothing more than taking the box score and turning it into a series of events that took place throughout the game, while mixing in quotes gained in the post-game press conference. Nothing more. If anyone of us watched the game, and then watched the press conference - you would get everything the Pantagraph offers. Occasionally, they'll mix in a nice feature, or for the big games they might pull Kindred off his beat and give him an editorial...but that's where it ends.

It's delicate. The Pantagraph knows that a misstep would cost them in the relationship...so instead, they take on the role of the unofficaial university's internal communications department. In fairness, both coaches that we have at the helm (Muller and Spack) deserve respect and some program privacy if they want it. It kind of goes with the territory of being successful. If Benson or Reinhardt ever really wanted to dive deep into some areas that appease the small batch of people who are interested in knowing the details, they do so at the risk of potentially alienating the kool-aid-drinkers and program supporters who prefer that truth takes a backseat to protecting the program, when faced with the dilemma.

Either way, I don't care where it comes from - be it the Pantagraph, or a leaked source...but it would be nice to have some insight into what is going on here....especially with Spence Nowinsky.

fourthandshort
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:47 am

If Nowinsky is getting better gig .. good for him, and I can accept that .. it is the nature of college coaching, especially at FCS level.

per my other post, I wouldn't doubt Spack takes back DC reins and finds another Asst DC to do daily stuff like Nowinsky originally did back in 2011-12 when Spack was DC. Then slowly turn it over to Asst DC when it makes sense to do so.

Nowinsky will be greatly missed, but Spack will figure it out again on defense. I'm more worried about replacing the seniors than Nowinsky .. and I'm a big Nowinsky fan. but that's because I trust Spack to figure it out. Will be a slow start defensively this year, with or without Nowinsky at helm.

Congrats to Nowinsky if he simply got a better gig .. best wishes and thanks for your contributions !!!

p.s. but yeesh, what a perfect storm of coaching turnover .. .. though I have no doubts offense will be fine.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

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RBFANTOO
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:37 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:47 am
If Nowinsky is getting better gig .. good for him, and I can accept that .. it is the nature of college coaching, especially at FCS level.

per my other post, I wouldn't doubt Spack takes back DC reins and finds another Asst DC to do daily stuff like Nowinsky originally did back in 2011-12 when Spack was DC. Then slowly turn it over to Asst DC when it makes sense to do so.

Nowinsky will be greatly missed, but Spack will figure it out again on defense. I'm more worried about replacing the seniors than Nowinsky .. and I'm a big Nowinsky fan. but that's because I trust Spack to figure it out. Will be a slow start defensively this year, with or without Nowinsky at helm.

Congrats to Nowinsky if he simply got a better gig .. best wishes and thanks for your contributions !!!

p.s. but yeesh, what a perfect storm of coaching turnover .. .. though I have no doubts offense will be fine.
Call it a coincidence but I just ordered a 10 year supply of Kool Aid when I found out that Coach Beathard was returning as OC. :D
Redbird Nation Rising

fourthandshort
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:06 pm

RBFANTOO wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:37 am
fourthandshort wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:47 am
If Nowinsky is getting better gig .. good for him, and I can accept that .. it is the nature of college coaching, especially at FCS level.

per my other post, I wouldn't doubt Spack takes back DC reins and finds another Asst DC to do daily stuff like Nowinsky originally did back in 2011-12 when Spack was DC. Then slowly turn it over to Asst DC when it makes sense to do so.

Nowinsky will be greatly missed, but Spack will figure it out again on defense. I'm more worried about replacing the seniors than Nowinsky .. and I'm a big Nowinsky fan. but that's because I trust Spack to figure it out. Will be a slow start defensively this year, with or without Nowinsky at helm.

Congrats to Nowinsky if he simply got a better gig .. best wishes and thanks for your contributions !!!

p.s. but yeesh, what a perfect storm of coaching turnover .. .. though I have no doubts offense will be fine.
Call it a coincidence but I just ordered a 10 year supply of Kool Aid when I found out that Coach Beathard was returning as OC. :D
Just think about Robinson/Smith/Birch/Henderson running behind a more veteran stable healthy OL, than we ever had this year. Look at USD and YSU games as measuring stick for our run game potential. USD was a very good defense when we played them .. they were healthy and had none of the suspensions that dogged them later in season and playoffs. YSU was also a good defense. They made every other top 10 team from MVFC struggle to win. except us.

Then add to that some koolaid assisted optimism that our QB position will be better as well .. mainly because of improved OL and OC, and our stud RBs. Just need to find some WRs. Do NOT rule our Kolbe shocking this board next fall .. we are just 2 WRs from having a very potent offense next year. Then watch Kolbe show us his upside.

p.s. did I just hear a collective forum groan ????
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Redbirdfan21
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:00 pm

Interesting tweet from a former RB. Not sure if it’ll show on here but it was “liked” by a former coach...


Morans14
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:05 pm

Redbirdfan21 wrote:Interesting tweet from a former RB. Not sure if it’ll show on here but it was “liked” by a former coach...

I seem to recall a similar tweet from Jon Marc Anderson in the last few days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Total Red
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:58 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:06 pm


Just think about Robinson/Smith/Birch/Henderson running behind a more veteran stable healthy OL, than we ever had this year. Look at USD and YSU games as measuring stick for our run game potential. USD was a very good defense when we played them .. they were healthy and had none of the suspensions that dogged them later in season and playoffs. YSU was also a good defense. They made every other top 10 team from MVFC struggle to win. except us.

Then add to that some koolaid assisted optimism that our QB position will be better as well .. mainly because of improved OL and OC, and our stud RBs. Just need to find some WRs. Do NOT rule our Kolbe shocking this board next fall .. we are just 2 WRs from having a very potent offense next year. Then watch Kolbe show us his upside.

p.s. did I just hear a collective forum groan ????
No groan here, I'm on board

BallwinBird2012
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:23 pm

I guess I'm in the minority, but I guess I'm a little confused as to why people think there is some kind of behind-the-scenes conspiracy theory about all the coaching changes. If you look at each situation independently, they all kind of make sense.

For the three offensive coaches that were let go, I don't think there should be too much surprise. Our offense has drastically under-performed the last two years.

I know we've put some O-Lineman in The League the last couple of years, but lets not forget that we had ALL FIVE starters back two years ago on our O-Line, and for the first half of the year, we couldn't get enough of a push to run on ANYONE. Not to mention that Kolbe was a sitting duck (although some of that was definitely his fault). I didn't see DRASTIC improvements from our O-Line this year either. Go back and look at the games when our running game was dominant. Our backs were breaking three or four tackles a play. It's not like the holes were THAT much more open. So, yes, we've put out some good individual performers, but I think the units as a whole have been underwhelming, especially given the talent that was there.

For Dicken, no one should have been surprised that he wasn't even kept around as a QB coach. Jake has regressed. It's a performance business.

For Kane, again, we had some good individual performers, but the group overall was underwhelming and, at times, just bad.

Losing Conard sucks, but I really think it was just a matter of him realizing after Beathard was brought back that he had accomplished all he was going to as a coach at ISU.

Nowinsky: see Conard. Hate to lose him. Great coach. But the fact that he and Conard have been at ISU for 9 years is NOT NORMAL in coaching today. He had an opportunity to move up. Good for him! We should be thankful we had those two for as long as we have.

Yes, losing 5 coaches in a single off season is a lot, but when you look at each situation in and of itself.... I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. I just think maybe there's not that much more to the story... Rant over.

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Total Red
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:05 pm

BallwinBird2012 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:23 pm


I know we've put some O-Lineman in The League the last couple of years, but lets not forget that we had ALL FIVE starters back two years ago on our O-Line, and for the first half of the year, we couldn't get enough of a push to run on ANYONE. Not to mention that Kolbe was a sitting duck (although some of that was definitely his fault).

2016 - Roberson and Coprich were gone. We weren't as talented in the offensive backfield. It takes both the line and the players running behind it to make it happen.

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isuquinndog
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:08 pm

Redbirdfan21 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:00 pm
Interesting tweet from a former RB. Not sure if it’ll show on here but it was “liked” by a former coach...

Randy replied:

LET'S WIN THIS GAME!

fourthandshort
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:36 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:08 pm
Redbirdfan21 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:00 pm
Interesting tweet from a former RB. Not sure if it’ll show on here but it was “liked” by a former coach...

Randy replied:

I happen to think Randy is dead on right on both offense and defense.

Defensively ... Nowinsky leaving does not seem like anything more than him getting a better higher paying gig.

Offensively ... The OC issue was unavoidable in June 2016, but Spack .. rightly or wrongly .. chose to to give it one more year in 2017. Not the worst decision ever made .. but certainly questionable and it failed. And that 2017 OC decision is on Spack. But I do NOT blame Spack for the decision he made in June 2016 .. he was put in a very tough spot - there were risks either way on that decision.

From there, odds are Clark didn't want a demotion back to OL coach .. reasonable explanation. As for WR coach Kiernan .. no idea, but he was newbie anyway. But if rumor is true about Conard fudging RB grades, maybe Kiernan was doing same for WR grades, or just wasn't getting after that group like he needed to. And just maybe Dicken was subtly encouraging fudging game grading it to cover his own butt. All unknown speculation on my part, other than Conard scoop from TR4Heisman - clearly something went bad there with Conard, a 9 year Spack coach.

But think about the pressure Dicken was under .. and my contention all along that Dicken personality was not good at handling that pressure as an OC .. especially an OC who had to know his job was on line after 2016 consistency issues. Anyone recall the love fest between Kolbe and Dicken all spring and summer .. well, as much as it was good to see the effort, it was probably 95% forced, and like any forced relationship, it didn't work out.

That is why I think Randy hit nail on head.
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fourthandshort
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 4:57 pm

Total Red wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:58 pm
fourthandshort wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:06 pm


Just think about Robinson/Smith/Birch/Henderson running behind a more veteran stable healthy OL, than we ever had this year. Look at USD and YSU games as measuring stick for our run game potential. USD was a very good defense when we played them .. they were healthy and had none of the suspensions that dogged them later in season and playoffs. YSU was also a good defense. They made every other top 10 team from MVFC struggle to win. except us.

Then add to that some koolaid assisted optimism that our QB position will be better as well .. mainly because of improved OL and OC, and our stud RBs. Just need to find some WRs. Do NOT rule our Kolbe shocking this board next fall .. we are just 2 WRs from having a very potent offense next year. Then watch Kolbe show us his upside.

p.s. did I just hear a collective forum groan ????
No groan here, I'm on board
TR ... As esteemed a poster as you are, I will take your vote of support .. and run with it .. but possibly lose it on this further supposition. So recap all the issues with offense in 2017 .. some supported by stats, strong opinions, and some by reliable unconfirmed sources/rumuors with 4 offensive coach's being fired or leaving under duress.

- OC - Dicken was just not cut out for this job; plus the shared role with co-OC Clark .. was that helping or hurting.
- OL .. lost 4.5 starters and had 2 injured, or playing hurt most of season, with most turnover at Center. Not necessarily Clark's fault, but it was a struggle.
- RB .. possibly our best RB group ever; but is TR4H source righ about grades benig fudged and lacking of blocking behind and inconsistent OL true ??
- WR .. possibly the worst WR group ISU has had in a long time, add my speculation that maybe their game grades were being fudged like we rumored about RB group.
- TE .. I like Petkovic, but he did drop a few too many. Do think he was + overall though
- QB .. did much better in weak pocket this year, but his passing deteriorated as season progressed .. this makes no sense given his 2016 performance.

So at risk of losing TR support on this Kolbe issue ... I contend that while Kolbe had a bad year, he had very little to work with on all fronts .. other than our RBs could flat out run and break tackles ... if not pass block, or finish off play fakes, etc.

So I find it hard to place blame squarely at Kolbe's feet with so many problems surrounding him - look how many offensive coaches are now gone ... has to be for a good reason. Spack would not have done this to save face for Kolbe .. no way. So I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out next fall ... just find a couple WRs and offensive coaches.

p.s. the forum groan just got noticeably louder
Last edited by fourthandshort on Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BallwinBird2012
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:00 pm

Total Red wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:05 pm
BallwinBird2012 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:23 pm


I know we've put some O-Lineman in The League the last couple of years, but lets not forget that we had ALL FIVE starters back two years ago on our O-Line, and for the first half of the year, we couldn't get enough of a push to run on ANYONE. Not to mention that Kolbe was a sitting duck (although some of that was definitely his fault).

2016 - Roberson and Coprich were gone. We weren't as talented in the offensive backfield. It takes both the line and the players running behind it to make it happen.
Oh most definitely. Athletic QBs that can run when the blocking breaks down makes any offensive line look really good. I just remember not feeling that that group was as dominant as I thought they would be that season.

BallwinBird2012
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:02 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:08 pm
Redbirdfan21 wrote:
Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:00 pm
Interesting tweet from a former RB. Not sure if it’ll show on here but it was “liked” by a former coach...

Randy replied:

Well done Randy! You perfectly summed up what took me almost half a page to type in 4 sentences! :text-+1:

SteveO
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Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:37 pm

Our OC will make the right decision on who the QB should be. To think that better coaching, a better OL and WRs is all Kolbe needs to bring us an FCS championship in my opinion seems to be a stretch. It can make him a little more confident in the pocket but will it make him more agile, athletic, a consistently accurate passer, not afraid at times to run with the ball and maybe grow an inch or two? We saw some really good QBs against most of the MVFC, where does Kolbe rank compared to them?

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