Kolbe or Broadnax?

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fourthandshort
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Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:42 pm

I think we start with OC position .. then take it from there and see how things go. Offense will be in much better shape with OL situation out of the gate. Also need some WRs .. cupboard is suddenly bare this year and we're normally stocked very well.

As for QB position, Kolbe has lot of work to do to prove himself as starter for next season. Only time will tell. I don't think Broadnax is the solution, or he would have played more today. Kolbe played a gutty game today .. conditions were brutal, and that is one of the best defenses in the country.

As for defense, we're losing a fair amount .. especially DT and CB, though we always reload. Guessing, it will be a slow start on this side of ball next fall. Going to need the offense to carry the load and win some games for us.

Going to be all about the RBs and OL next year ... need to build around that, and work from there. Need a new OC to bring this together. Need to find an up and comer. Or bring Beathard back.

p.s. lot of bubble games going "our way" today I'm not saying we're getting in, but we're not as far off the bubble as one might think. But there are way too many 7-4 teams in CAA and Big Sky.
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Virginia Redbird
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:51 am

fourthandshort wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 8:42 pm
I think we start with OC position .. then take it from there and see how things go. Offense will be in much better shape with OL situation out of the gate. Also need some WRs .. cupboard is suddenly bare this year and we're normally stocked very well.

As for QB position, Kolbe has lot of work to do to prove himself as starter for next season. Only time will tell. I don't think Broadnax is the solution, or he would have played more today. Kolbe played a gutty game today .. conditions were brutal, and that is one of the best defenses in the country.

As for defense, we're losing a fair amount .. especially DT and CB, though we always reload. Guessing, it will be a slow start on this side of ball next fall. Going to need the offense to carry the load and win some games for us.

Going to be all about the RBs and OL next year ... need to build around that, and work from there. Need a new OC to bring this together. Need to find an up and comer. Or bring Beathard back.

p.s. lot of bubble games going "our way" today I'm not saying we're getting in, but we're not as far off the bubble as one might think. But there are way too many 7-4 teams in CAA and Big Sky.
I agree...Coach Spack has to address the offensive coordinator situation this off season. If he does not just expect more of the same next year.
My own opinion is this team does not deserve to be included in the playoffs. Too inconsistent and just not good enough on the field or definitely on the sidelines with the coaching staff. Last year I thought they played well enough down the stretch to deserve a spot. This year was a totally different story. This Redbird team simply does not deserve a playoff spot. They did not earn one this season.
That does not diminish some great play this season from some players. Some seniors leaving that have left a significant mark on the program and made watching Redbird football fun. Thanks to the seniors and looking forward to spring ball and next season already!
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

fourthandshort
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:09 am

VA Redbird .. i saw season a little differently. I thought we proved we were a playoff team, but dug a hole we couldn't quite get out of in weeks 5 & 6 with losses to NAU and SIU. Our funk this year started in 2nd half of week 4 against InSU .. we destroyed them 1st half, but left points on field, then didn't show up 2nd half.

But starting with week 7 against USD, we have played a very high level of football, except for Q3 against WIU. We played 5 straight highly ranked teams to close the season, and went 2-3 .. had a shot to win against SDSU if not for play calling the last 2 series; had a shot against NDSU until we ran into punter, followed by a pick with big return. I think we proved there is very fine line between good and great .. but we were right on that line.

My point being, If we beat SIU or NAU, we are in playoffs with how closed season. There are teams who will make these playoffs, that we are better than .. but we dug too deep a hole given how tough our last 5 games were.

The Massey Composite is up already, though just 11 of 35 polls at this time.

- our 4 of 5 losses: #2 , #3, #4, #20
- our 2 of 6 wins: #10, #19

After at large bids come out and Massey Composite has all 35 polls done .. our resume will be better than 3 to 5 teams they pick.

Here's one I know .. McNeese St finished 9-2 against 86th ranked SOS .. they very likely secured an at large bid by beating a very bad 2-9 Lamar by just 10 points .. Lamar is ranked #105. McNeese best win is against 6-5 SELA (Massey #49) by 10 at home. They padded their record with 4 wins against teams ranked between #88 and #109 ... by an average of 9 points per game ... beat 4 bad teams by 9 points per game .. not 1 or 2 ... 4 bad teams !!! They have zero wins against ranked opponents ... because UCA is the only one they played.

Not really arguing we deserve playoff bid at 6-5, but there will be teams who get bid, that we have better resume than, and would beat.

And we did this despite a inexperienced and banged up OL, a below average WR group, too much inconsistency from our QB, and some very questionable play calling from OC at times.

I have no doubt this is a playoff caliber team right now, even with our weaknesses .. most teams have weaknesses, most teams lose games they should win ... problem is there is too little room for error in MVFC.
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rdt99
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 am

This season definitely is a disappointment. We had the talent to do better. I don't understand not showing up for games. There is something missing "inside" the players. As for next year, I agree we need a new offensive coordinator. I am really concerned about the quarterback position. Kolbe has been a disappointment so far. He needs to really up his game for next season to be a success.

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Chi-bird
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:56 am

This team, and many others are not worthy of the playoffs.....and that's ok. Let's not further ruin the FCS playoffs by allowing any and all to make it.

MadBird
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:07 am

rdt99 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 am
This season definitely is a disappointment. We had the talent to do better. I don't understand not showing up for games. There is something missing "inside" the players. As for next year, I agree we need a new offensive coordinator. I am really concerned about the quarterback position. Kolbe has been a disappointment so far. He needs to really up his game for next season to be a success.
I'm kind of more where fourthandshort is but rdt99 makes very good points too. I guess I agree with both.

But this comment about something missing inside - I'm thinking back to the pre-season "Next Step", and remember Spack talking about how there's something "special" about this team, and talking up their attitude, etc. Something went wrong somewhere, or he terribly misread this team.

The margin between playoffs and watching is pretty slim, can come down to a play or two here and there, a few bad minutes in one game (say a blocked punt and crappy pass over a couple minutes yesterday). I'd especially say to some of our posters and fans, come down from the ledge. Spack is a good coach, we have a very good and well-respected program, that underachieved this year for sure. We'll have another winning record. But we're all hungry for a little more next year!!

dpdoughbird06
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 am

MadBird wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:07 am
rdt99 wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:46 am
This season definitely is a disappointment. We had the talent to do better. I don't understand not showing up for games. There is something missing "inside" the players. As for next year, I agree we need a new offensive coordinator. I am really concerned about the quarterback position. Kolbe has been a disappointment so far. He needs to really up his game for next season to be a success.
I'm kind of more where fourthandshort is but rdt99 makes very good points too. I guess I agree with both.

But this comment about something missing inside - I'm thinking back to the pre-season "Next Step", and remember Spack talking about how there's something "special" about this team, and talking up their attitude, etc. Something went wrong somewhere, or he terribly misread this team.

The margin between playoffs and watching is pretty slim, can come down to a play or two here and there, a few bad minutes in one game (say a blocked punt and crappy pass over a couple minutes yesterday). I'd especially say to some of our posters and fans, come down from the ledge. Spack is a good coach, we have a very good and well-respected program, that underachieved this year for sure. We'll have another winning record. But we're all hungry for a little more next year!!
I agree with all of the above - including us being better than many of the teams that will get in; if only MBB tourney selection were like this - Birds would have danced at least twice since Muller graduated.

Our special teams was solid this year, but man did we have a handful of moments that turned games in opponents' favor. Between those rare but ill-timed gaffes and our offense's inability to sustain drives, what should have been a historically stout D ended up being merely very good because we kept sending them back out there with minimal rest.

Ultimately we and WIU were mirror images the last two years, each taking turns finishing strong one year to snag a playoff bid and limping home to miss out in the other. Here's hoping we return to beating them every year again going forward. It hurt to lose to two of our three in-state rivals this year.

I'm still grateful to have such high expectations for our program. Such a contrast from the latter part of my time as a student ('99-'06). It says something that I can't believe it's basketball season already - playoff wins have become an expectation at ISU.

MadBird
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:39 am

Just wanted to correct my above comment about "blocked punt", I think most will know the play I'm talking about, the roughing the punter penalty, not a blocked punt. Too early on Sunday AM to translate brain to fingers!! :oops:

RedbirdSF67
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:58 am

We are at a crossroads with ISU football. Stay the same and always know we will have a winning season, with wins against ISU-s, MSU, two non-conference wins, and trading wins with SDU, NIU, WIU, SIU every year. 6-5, 7-4, and occasional 8-3.

Or

Making changes that will get us to be in the same realm as NDSU, James Madison, EWash, etc.. Tough call to be honest, because big changes can lead you to conference bottom dweller too if you screw it up.

I vote for continuous improvement. For example rumor is we have new turf coming! That is a good start. Let's pick a year to build the indoor facility. Talking about it makes me like it isn't going to happen. so let's say that starts 2019! Just commit to it already. Next we need to switch it up on culture, staying the same with game experience, uniforms, conservative old school coaching works if you are the Yankees, we are not the Yankees. How about a Redbird "Blackout" or. "Whiteout" next year with cool uniforms? Players love that. Imagine recruits seeing that? Wow.

I vote getting riskier, going for it, winning championships, not playing it safe year after year.

RedbirdSF67
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:05 am

One more thing, Spack and the Hancock 2.0 did get us to that upper 1/4 of FCS football. Example of what strong investment will get you. We need more....

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Virginia Redbird
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:32 pm

I will agree that there will likely be teams that make the playoff brackets that are not as good as the Redbirds. The MVC is tough, really tough, and some teams are going to lose and still be better than a team from a weaker conference with a more glittery won and loss record. No argument from me on that point. I just did not see the consistency and fire from this team across the season. There were games and there were halves when they looked like one of the elite of the MVC. Then there were halves like against Indiana State (0-11) where they mailed in the second half and looked lost. The entire SIU game. Second half of the WIU game. There were growing pains with the O line, which I thought played pretty well down the stretch and look to be a strong part of 2018. Running backs were solid. D line was solid and also the linebacking. Actually for the most part I would say the entire D played well but just could not over come a very erratic and weak at times offense. The coaching/play calling was very bad at times and in my opinion, cost the Birds some games. The coaching staff seemed to be incapable of making halftime adjustments while other teams adjusted to ISU very well. Mistakes were a factor and that generally goes to coaching as well. There were bad calls of course (targeting on two occasions come to mind) but all teams get bad calls from time to time. You have to play through it and overcome it. QB play was very good at times but also erratic. I just did not see this team as deserving a playoff spot but that is just my opinion. I would have been happy if they got one, I just did not see that happening and did not feel it could be complained about.
4 teams that beat ISU made the playoff field (SDSU, WIU, NDSU & NAU) as well as one team the Redbirds beat (South Dakota). This team had their destiny in their own hands and did not get it done.
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

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chuckie1980
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Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:45 pm

Damned snow

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isuquinndog
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:19 am

cubird wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Maybe look at a transfer. Get him on campus for spring ball.
I don't follow football like I do basketball.

But I've been told we have QB's on the roster that are far better than what we've played. Why would we want to bring in more QB's?
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!

fourthandshort
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:52 am

My 2 cents .. wait for OC decision to judge QB position. I know I look foolish for having hung with Kolbe .. but I still say he had very little to work with:

- OC - questionable OC and play calling .. Dicken was a D-III OC at IWU; quite a jump up to best conference in FCS
- OL - very inexperienced and banged up OL, forced many changes during year .. but I like our chances going into next year with this group
- WR - very little in our WR group .. our best guys were just pretty good and there was nothing behind them at all; Then Gibbs went down for 3 games leaving Schnell all by himself. Spack said last spring and summer .. we have too many "sometimes guys" not enough "everyday guys".
- TE was pretty good this year, but no depth behind him as of now ..might be couple guys we can develop
- RB - love who we have and position is stacked, but we're more power than speed - could use a speedy change of pace guy that drives teams nuts - Henderson may be the guy, but he was used sparingly.

Look at Kolbe Stats a year ago versus this year .. much worse, even though he was much better making decisions in pocket this year compared a year ago .. yet a year ago he had much better stats .. digest that. Then consider he was playing behind 4 or 5 new OL with several changes during year, including 3 different centers (Helt played injured because of snap issues with other guys), and then very limited options at WR.

Make a decision with OC position, then let that guy build his system and figure our QB position. Our OL should be much more stable by next fall. Also MUST fins a WR transfer or 2 ... that cupboard is very bare right now.

Was listening to ESPN radio this morning .. guy was commenting on how common place it has become for Brady to throw for 300 yards. But then he said something else .. he said, do you ever notice how Patriot receivers are almost always open and Brady almost always has time to throw.

Need a good system, good game plan, and good play calling .. with position groups that do their jobs reasonably well. We had weaknesses at OL, WR, and OC ... yet people want to hold Kolbe 100% responsible. Kolbe had a bad year .. but he had very little around him except the RB position.

Find the right OC .. then work things out from there.
Redbird Nation Rising ... Fans and donors need to get on board !!

ThisIsTheLineup
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:19 am
cubird wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Maybe look at a transfer. Get him on campus for spring ball.
I don't follow football like I do basketball.

But I've been told we have QB's on the roster that are far better than what we've played. Why would we want to bring in more QB's?
Word on the street is that Jeff George Jr. is filing graduation papers down the road already....would we take him if he wanted to grad transfer?

I am very interested to see Hatfield - he may be the real deal. Maybe JK rights some wrongs over the off season. Maybe MB getting more experience will benefit him next year.

Like Fourth said - it'll all depend on the OC situation TBH.

cpacmel
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:25 am

ThisIsTheLineup wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 am
Word on the street is that Jeff George Jr. is filing graduation papers down the road already....would we take him if he wanted to grad transfer?
He wouldn’t need to graduate to transfer and play right away at the fcs level.

ThisIsTheLineup
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:34 am

cpacmel wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:25 am
ThisIsTheLineup wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:12 am
Word on the street is that Jeff George Jr. is filing graduation papers down the road already....would we take him if he wanted to grad transfer?
He wouldn’t need to graduate to transfer and play right away at the fcs level.
Oh I know - I think he is TRYING to graduate from Illinois early. I do not think him wanting to graduate and him wanting to transfer are mutually exclusive ideas. With that being said - he can still play and I wouldn't be surprised if he is looking. I do not know if you want him, though.

BallwinBird2012
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:10 pm

TreRoberson4Heisman wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:10 pm
Isn’t Hatfield the highest ranked QB recruit ISU has ever had straight out of HS? Or something like that?
Actually, I think Kolbe is. He was a 3* on 247. I don't think Hatfield was that highly regarded. Could be way off.

DannyCooksey
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:15 pm

fourthandshort wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:52 am
My 2 cents .. wait for OC decision to judge QB position. I know I look foolish for having hung with Kolbe .. but I still say he had very little to work with:

- OC - questionable OC and play calling .. Dicken was a D-III OC at IWU; quite a jump up to best conference in FCS
- OL - very inexperienced and banged up OL, forced many changes during year .. but I like our chances going into next year with this group
- WR - very little in our WR group .. our best guys were just pretty good and there was nothing behind them at all; Then Gibbs went down for 3 games leaving Schnell all by himself. Spack said last spring and summer .. we have too many "sometimes guys" not enough "everyday guys".
- TE was pretty good this year, but no depth behind him as of now ..might be couple guys we can develop
- RB - love who we have and position is stacked, but we're more power than speed - could use a speedy change of pace guy that drives teams nuts - Henderson may be the guy, but he was used sparingly.

Look at Kolbe Stats a year ago versus this year .. much worse, even though he was much better making decisions in pocket this year compared a year ago .. yet a year ago he had much better stats .. digest that. Then consider he was playing behind 4 or 5 new OL with several changes during year, including 3 different centers (Helt played injured because of snap issues with other guys), and then very limited options at WR.

Make a decision with OC position, then let that guy build his system and figure our QB position. Our OL should be much more stable by next fall. Also MUST fins a WR transfer or 2 ... that cupboard is very bare right now.

Was listening to ESPN radio this morning .. guy was commenting on how common place it has become for Brady to throw for 300 yards. But then he said something else .. he said, do you ever notice how Patriot receivers are almost always open and Brady almost always has time to throw.

Need a good system, good game plan, and good play calling .. with position groups that do their jobs reasonably well. We had weaknesses at OL, WR, and OC ... yet people want to hold Kolbe 100% responsible. Kolbe had a bad year .. but he had very little around him except the RB position.

Find the right OC .. then work things out from there.
Need WR help big-time.

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RBFANTOO
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Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:01 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:19 am
cubird wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:09 pm
Maybe look at a transfer. Get him on campus for spring ball.
I don't follow football like I do basketball.

But I've been told we have QB's on the roster that are far better than what we've played. Why would we want to bring in more QB's?
I think this thread should be "Kolbe, Broadnax, or ?"
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