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Indoor Facility News

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Redbirdwarrior
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Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:58 am

ricohill wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:47 am

I don't think ISU can support FBS football. They can't draw now for FCS football or D1 basketball. You might get more interest if you bring in a Big Ten team (highly unlikely), but how many more people will show up for a game against Akron?
There is the winner right there.

https://www.daily-chronicle.com/2018/01 ... y/d45m7in/
Let's take a look at NIU, who, you'll remember, was long one of the strongest non-P5 football programs in the country for years and years, capping with an invite to the Orange Bowl. They are not "bad" these days, just kinda ...meh. But attendance is down 47% over the last 5 years. Dekalb now "packs" about 11,000 people in a game.

Sorry, man. We do about 8-10 as it is. Playing Akron on a Thursday Night is going to draw probably the same amount of fans as we currently do playing UNI on Saturday afternoon. And it will cost a TON more to do it.

CaliRdBrd
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Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:20 pm

In all fairness, I don't want to kill football for all the reasons bbFan mentions, but going to FBS is fruitless unless we can get into a P5 and that ain't happenin'.
So...based on that, I guess we just stay as relevant as possible within the FCS world and end any talk of moving up a level. I'm sorta OK with this model as long as no money is sacrificed for whatever the hoops team needs.

ricohill
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Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:44 pm

Not that it should factor in the decision making process, but think how long it took to win anything in football at the FCS level. How long would it take for us to reach a respectable level at FBS (I know we have a couple FBS wins, but I have a feeling those won't be as easy if you have to play FBS teams every week)?

I wish we could get our act together and give our football program the resources they need at the FCS level. If we can't do that, FBS is a waste of time.

ChiRedbirdfan
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 am

Humdinger wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:16 am
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am
One more comment...

Unfortunately, but fitting with the wussy society we now live in, and evidenced by the lack of kids interested in football at all levels (high school and below), it’s a dying sport.
Wussy society?... when neurologists say playing footballl is bad for the brain most parents are going to rightfully (IMO)not let their children play football. I like watching football but no way were my kids allowed to play football. But to each their own.

Participation really isn't down very much where I'm from. Matter of fact the JFL leagues are as packed as ever, and Fri night football is a pretty big event around Central IL.[/b

Question humdinger ...... are you suggestioning football participation is not down or what is your point we should take from this paragraph?

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Virginia Redbird
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:51 am

ricohill wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:47 am
There are several issue with moving up to FBS.

First, Illinois State athletics since Zenger left can't raise any money. It would take real vision and leadership from the University President (nothing against Dietz, but he won't be here when this happens) and the athletic director. I don't think Dietz has any interest in this and our current AD has accomplished just about zero of the projects he wanted since he go here. So you need real change there.

Second, I don't think ISU can support FBS football. They can't draw now for FCS football or D1 basketball. You might get more interest if you bring in a Big Ten team (highly unlikely), but how many more people will show up for a game against Akron?

Third, the visibility of being a low level FBS schools brings you nothing except dept. So many of these FBS schools lose money every year. Your success in basketball is tied to how much money you spend on basketball and there is statistical data to prove that based on budgets of the teams that make the tournament. ISU is near the bottom in spending in the MVC and in the middle nationally.

I'm not in the completely drop football group, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice the resources of basketball for a football program that has had one random run to the FCS championship and not much success before or after.

Now if ISU brought in a dynamic AD and that person cleaned house to bring in real fundraisers, maybe ISU could become an NDSU or SDSU, but we are miles away from even being at their level with fundraising, facilities, and consistent success.
I don't have any inside information at all. I just watch some programs with interest here in my local area. Appalachian State jumped to FBS a few years ago and has had pretty decent success. They came very, very close to knocking off Penn State in Happy Valley this year and Miami visited the App State stadium a year or two ago. If you have ever been to Boone, NC (I have) it is really, really, really small. That they got the U of Miami to travel to their place was shocking to me. App State got smoked that year but still, a P5 program decided to travel to their stadium...why I still don't know. The big difference is that the App State program was a top-notch FCS program year in and year out and the fan base is rabid support.
I live right next to Old Dominion University and they also made the jump to FBS a few years ago but with less success than App State. The ODU team made a bowl game a couple years ago (Bahamas Bowl) but the past two years have been lean ones. The big news this year was Virginia Tech visiting the ODU campus. ODU knocked Tech off that day and it is still a mystery as to how they managed that. ODU has dumped money into the football program that they just brought back in 2009. Before that ODU was known as a basketball school, mainly women's basketball. Frankly, the addition of FBS football has brought back some interest to the school and they got quite a bit of national coverage for the upset of Tech. Has the investment paid off for the school? They seem to think so. The fanbase is pretty solid. While the team was consistently winning the stands were packed and you had a difficult time finding a ticket. With the wins getting fewer and farther between it is not the hardest ticket to find anymore.
What does all this mean for the Redbirds? Nothing really but I would say that the possibility of a P5 team coming to Hancock to play the Birds is not outside of reality. I do think the lack of fundraising at ISU is the biggest detriment. If you cant build an indoor facility in over 5 years while the team is doing well...I would not even consider it a possibility to move to FBS. All the schools that made the jump had to invest in facilities.
One last thing...the population of Boone, NC is less than 20,000. The population of Normal is less than 55,000. The population of Bloomington is just under 78,0000 and there is really nothing else around Boone for quite a distance. The enrollment at App State is about 17,000 and ISU has an enrollment of around 21,000. App State does not have a large population to draw on but it has shown it can be done but you have to be committed to it and fund it. I don't believe the powers that be at ISU are either of these, committed or willing to fund it. I like FCS football myself so I don't mind the Birds staying put but just commit and fund at this level. That is not happening or we would not be discussing the indoor facility...it would already be built!
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

Humdinger
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:31 am

Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:51 am


I don't have any inside information at all. I just watch some programs with interest here in my local area. Appalachian State jumped to FBS a few years ago and has had pretty decent success. They came very, very close to knocking off Penn State in Happy Valley this year and Miami visited the App State stadium a year or two ago. If you have ever been to Boone, NC (I have) it is really, really, really small. That they got the U of Miami to travel to their place was shocking to me. App State got smoked that year but still, a P5 program decided to travel to their stadium...why I still don't know. The big difference is that the App State program was a top-notch FCS program year in and year out and the fan base is rabid support.
I live right next to Old Dominion University and they also made the jump to FBS a few years ago but with less success than App State. The ODU team made a bowl game a couple years ago (Bahamas Bowl) but the past two years have been lean ones. The big news this year was Virginia Tech visiting the ODU campus. ODU knocked Tech off that day and it is still a mystery as to how they managed that. ODU has dumped money into the football program that they just brought back in 2009. Before that ODU was known as a basketball school, mainly women's basketball. Frankly, the addition of FBS football has brought back some interest to the school and they got quite a bit of national coverage for the upset of Tech. Has the investment paid off for the school? They seem to think so. The fanbase is pretty solid. While the team was consistently winning the stands were packed and you had a difficult time finding a ticket. With the wins getting fewer and farther between it is not the hardest ticket to find anymore.
What does all this mean for the Redbirds? Nothing really but I would say that the possibility of a P5 team coming to Hancock to play the Birds is not outside of reality. I do think the lack of fundraising at ISU is the biggest detriment. If you cant build an indoor facility in over 5 years while the team is doing well...I would not even consider it a possibility to move to FBS. All the schools that made the jump had to invest in facilities.
One last thing...the population of Boone, NC is less than 20,000. The population of Normal is less than 55,000. The population of Bloomington is just under 78,0000 and there is really nothing else around Boone for quite a distance. The enrollment at App State is about 17,000 and ISU has an enrollment of around 21,000. App State does not have a large population to draw on but it has shown it can be done but you have to be committed to it and fund it. I don't believe the powers that be at ISU are either of these, committed or willing to fund it. I like FCS football myself so I don't mind the Birds staying put but just commit and fund at this level. That is not happening or we would not be discussing the indoor facility...it would already be built!

Interesting read.

Humdinger
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:35 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 am
Humdinger wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am



Participation really isn't down very much where I'm from. Matter of fact the JFL leagues are as packed as ever, and Fri night football is a pretty big event around Central IL.
Question humdinger ...... are you suggestioning football participation is not down or what is your point we should take from this paragraph?

Rephrasing. Outside of one local school, participation is steady and has been steady for 20 yrs. Some of our locals have actually increased numbers substantially in that time frame, and their respective programs' success reflects it. I don't believe nationally it's a dying sport. Yet.

Officiating numbers...now that's a "sport" that is hurting. Trending down at an alarming rate.

ChiRedbirdfan
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:03 am

Humdinger wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:35 am
ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:01 am
Humdinger wrote:
Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:02 am



Participation really isn't down very much where I'm from. Matter of fact the JFL leagues are as packed as ever, and Fri night football is a pretty big event around Central IL.
Question humdinger ...... are you suggestioning football participation is not down or what is your point we should take from this paragraph?

Rephrasing. Outside of one local school, participation is steady and has been steady for 20 yrs. Some of our locals have actually increased numbers substantially in that time frame, and their respective programs' success reflects it. I don't believe nationally it's a dying sport. Yet.

Officiating numbers...now that's a "sport" that is hurting. Trending down at an alarming rate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ear ... ba42a1c5d0

When you google football participation there are many articles.

Humdinger
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:32 am

Does football have a stress fracture, per se? Yes.

It is dying? I don't believe so. Not for a second.

Humdinger
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 am

Is it mainstream's most dangerous sport, play in and play out? Hek yes.

bb fan
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:51 pm

I was down in Boone NC a couple of years ago. Listening to sports radio and talking to folks, there is still a pretty vocal contingent that is upset about the move to FBS. They miss the FCS playoffs, and closer opponents in their league. And the one fan said the program went from being the black to being it the red. It's still a debate. It was one of those experiences that started me thinking non-P5 FBS is simply not worth it.
Last edited by bb fan on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crazzymark
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:49 pm

average football attendance 12,000...average basketball attendance 4,000 enough said....even when the team had 24 wins..6,000...nuff said.....this is a football school now, you dont stand and cheer you or be asked to sit looser basketball season ticket holders!! :romance-ballandchain:
Last edited by crazzymark on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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crazzymark
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:56 pm

Humdinger wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 am
Is it mainstream's most dangerous sport, play in and play out? Hek yes.
cheerleading is #1, #2 soccer , #3 gymnastics, based on injuries per athlete and team size..so good-by to the woman's soccer, cheerleading squad and gymnastics team...maybe a marbles team or net ball team instead

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TIMMY
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pm

crazzymark wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:56 pm
Humdinger wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:33 am
Is it mainstream's most dangerous sport, play in and play out? Hek yes.
cheerleading is #1, #2 soccer , #3 gymnastics, based on injuries per athlete and team size..so good-by to the woman's soccer, cheerleading squad and gymnastics team...maybe a marbles team or net ball team instead
Injuries or head injuries CTE? I think I know the answer.
Football #'s are down in Wiscosin. More schools looking at 8 man every year.
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TIMMY
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:17 pm

My opinion of youth football hasn't changed in 35 years and would offend many. Let's just say my son didn't play until H.S.
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Virginia Redbird
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:15 pm

bb fan wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:51 pm
I was down in Boone NC a couple of years ago. Listening to sports radio and talking to folks, there is still a pretty vocal contingent that is upset about the move to FBS. They miss the FCS playoffs and closer opponents in their league. And the one fan said the program went from being the black to being it the red. It's still a debate. It was one of those experiences that started me thinking non-P5 FBS is simply not worth it.
You are absolutely correct about some not being in support of the FBS move at App State. Here in the Tidewater area of Virginia, the comments are the same about ODU. They restarted the football program from scratch in 2009. The team was in the FCS playoffs just a few short years later and then decided to jump to FBS with a really significant investment in facilities and travel. Everything was great the year ODU went to the Bahamas Bowl but after back to back losing seasons there are quite a few that are now questioning if the team should have remained FCS. My guess is that with any team that moved up there will be those that thought they should have stayed in FCS. Kind of like the discussion about ISU moving up to FBS, some think it is the way to go and some are adamant it would be a big mistake. No matter what someone is not going to be happy about it. I don't think ISU has really committed to big-time success in FCS football. I think they are very happy making the playoffs on a somewhat regular basis and just having winning records. Obviously, I am not referring to Coach Spack and the coaching staff. I can't say the administration is wrong either. The school seems to be in good financial condition and enrollment seems stable. I can't say going into the red to go FBS or win an FCS Championship is a good road to take either. This may just be where the program is at and is going to remain.
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

ChiRedbirdfan
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Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:28 am

Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:15 pm
bb fan wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:51 pm
I was down in Boone NC a couple of years ago. Listening to sports radio and talking to folks, there is still a pretty vocal contingent that is upset about the move to FBS. They miss the FCS playoffs and closer opponents in their league. And the one fan said the program went from being the black to being it the red. It's still a debate. It was one of those experiences that started me thinking non-P5 FBS is simply not worth it.
You are absolutely correct about some not being in support of the FBS move at App State. Here in the Tidewater area of Virginia, the comments are the same about ODU. They restarted the football program from scratch in 2009. The team was in the FCS playoffs just a few short years later and then decided to jump to FBS with a really significant investment in facilities and travel. Everything was great the year ODU went to the Bahamas Bowl but after back to back losing seasons there are quite a few that are now questioning if the team should have remained FCS. My guess is that with any team that moved up there will be those that thought they should have stayed in FCS. Kind of like the discussion about ISU moving up to FBS, some think it is the way to go and some are adamant it would be a big mistake. No matter what someone is not going to be happy about it. I don't think ISU has really committed to big-time success in FCS football. I think they are very happy making the playoffs on a somewhat regular basis and just having winning records. Obviously, I am not referring to Coach Spack and the coaching staff. I can't say the administration is wrong either. The school seems to be in good financial condition and enrollment seems stable. I can't say going into the red to go FBS or win an FCS Championship is a good road to take either. This may just be where the program is at and is going to remain.
I am a very factual oriented so letting you know that before I ask you this question about your post..so what is the basis for saying that ISU “seems to be in good financial position”? If one looks at ISU’s debt rating (dropping over the last 5 years, one level above junk and also 5 levels below Indy state or Uni for comparison based upon Moody’s), shrinking endowment, lack of enrollment growth, and falling academic rankings then one should be deeply concerned. If you want to compare ISU to WIU, SIU, NIU OR Chciago State (whom all are failing in many ways) then yes we are better. I am not hammering ISU but believe all those that love and support ISU need to understand the reality of ISU’s finances if they want to make informed decisions on how to help and support ISU. I AM JUST SAYING.

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TIMMY
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Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:26 am

That's sobering.
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Humdinger
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Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:01 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:28 am

I am a very factual oriented so letting you know that before I ask you this question about your post..so what is the basis for saying that ISU “seems to be in good financial position”? If one looks at ISU’s debt rating (dropping over the last 5 years, one level above junk and also 5 levels below Indy state or Uni for comparison based upon Moody’s), shrinking endowment, lack of enrollment growth, and falling academic rankings then one should be deeply concerned. If you want to compare ISU to WIU, SIU, NIU OR Chciago State (whom all are failing in many ways) then yes we are better. I am not hammering ISU but believe all those that love and support ISU need to understand the reality of ISU’s finances if they want to make informed decisions on how to help and support ISU. I AM JUST SAYING.

Chi, not being a smarty pants here but I'm sincerely asking.
*Is the basis for ISU's debt rating because of the school's financial irresponsibility or because of our association in general with the state of IL? (broad question I realize) I realize many factors go into the rating (hmmm or do they?) but why has our debt rating dropped?
*Endowment. How much has it shrunk? From when to when? What's a healthy number for endowment?
*Enrollment growth. While we may not be growing, haven't we stayed consistent, generally, over the last 30 yrs? How much should we be growing? Does the University even want to grow? Is it in our best interests to grow enrollment? Interesting question- how much room do we have to grow?
*Falling academic rankings. According to who? What are those stats?

*In your view, from your informed basis, how do we best help and support ISU? Absolute sincere question. This is a good convo for all of us to have.

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Virginia Redbird
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Location: Chesapeake, Virginia

Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:43 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:28 am
Virginia Redbird wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:15 pm
bb fan wrote:
Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:51 pm
I was down in Boone NC a couple of years ago. Listening to sports radio and talking to folks, there is still a pretty vocal contingent that is upset about the move to FBS. They miss the FCS playoffs and closer opponents in their league. And the one fan said the program went from being the black to being it the red. It's still a debate. It was one of those experiences that started me thinking non-P5 FBS is simply not worth it.
You are absolutely correct about some not being in support of the FBS move at App State. Here in the Tidewater area of Virginia, the comments are the same about ODU. They restarted the football program from scratch in 2009. The team was in the FCS playoffs just a few short years later and then decided to jump to FBS with a really significant investment in facilities and travel. Everything was great the year ODU went to the Bahamas Bowl but after back to back losing seasons there are quite a few that are now questioning if the team should have remained FCS. My guess is that with any team that moved up there will be those that thought they should have stayed in FCS. Kind of like the discussion about ISU moving up to FBS, some think it is the way to go and some are adamant it would be a big mistake. No matter what someone is not going to be happy about it. I don't think ISU has really committed to big-time success in FCS football. I think they are very happy making the playoffs on a somewhat regular basis and just having winning records. Obviously, I am not referring to Coach Spack and the coaching staff. I can't say the administration is wrong either. The school seems to be in good financial condition and enrollment seems stable. I can't say going into the red to go FBS or win an FCS Championship is a good road to take either. This may just be where the program is at and is going to remain.
I am a very factual oriented so letting you know that before I ask you this question about your post..so what is the basis for saying that ISU “seems to be in good financial position”? If one looks at ISU’s debt rating (dropping over the last 5 years, one level above junk and also 5 levels below Indy state or Uni for comparison based upon Moody’s), shrinking endowment, lack of enrollment growth, and falling academic rankings then one should be deeply concerned. If you want to compare ISU to WIU, SIU, NIU OR Chciago State (whom all are failing in many ways) then yes we are better. I am not hammering ISU but believe all those that love and support ISU need to understand the reality of ISU’s finances if they want to make informed decisions on how to help and support ISU. I AM JUST SAYING.
I did not mean to ruffle your feathers Chi and glad you are so "factual oriented"...
I was only referring to comparisons to the other state universities in regards to enrollment and finances. In that regard, ISU seems to be doing pretty well. I don't live in Illinois any longer and it matters little to me if most of the state universities go away or not. I have a soft spot for ISU since I went there but that is the only reason I really care much about ISU. From what I have read about dropping enrollment it does seem that ISU has been fairly steady in that regard.
In any event...have a nice Sunday Chi! :D
“When you have great players, playing great, well that’s great football!”
John Madden

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