Nice Article on Referees

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bb fan
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 am

Good find. I did not sign up to read the whole story, but what UK fans did to Surfer Dude was terrible. I am glad Higgins fought back. I recall reading about that when it was going on. Really it is just plain stupid for fans to think the officials are on the take, or someone is trying to set their team up for a loss via biased officiating. How long do you think they could keep a lid on that before some official is going to say something? Or an official will refuse to do it and goes public about a conference, or the NCAA or an assingnor asked them to do that?

I knew immediately that Gregg Marshall is a certified jerk when, after we beat them in St. Louis a few years ago during the Jankovich years, he accused the Valley of not wanting Wichita to win and setting his team up for a loss via the stripes. And John Higgins called that game. I had heard that he was personally insulted. It is not only just terrible form and classless, it was a stupid assertion for the reasons I mentioned prior. You just don't rise in the officiating ranks as a D! official has and ever consider doing anything like that. Officials are human. and make mistakes. It is crazy to me a coach, or any fanbase can think some calls to change a game were intentional against them.

Humdinger
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:28 am

bb fan wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 am
Good find. I did not sign up to read the whole story, but what UK fans did to Surfer Dude was terrible. I am glad Higgins fought back. I recall reading about that when it was going on. Really it is just plain stupid for fans to think the officials are on the take, or someone is trying to set their team up for a loss via biased officiating. How long do you think they could keep a lid on that before some official is going to say something? Or an official will refuse to do it and goes public about a conference, or the NCAA or an assingnor asked them to do that?

I knew immediately that Gregg Marshall is a certified jerk when, after we beat them in St. Louis a few years ago during the Jankovich years, he accused the Valley of not wanting Wichita to win and setting his team up for a loss via the stripes. And John Higgins called that game. I had heard that he was personally insulted. It is not only just terrible form and classless, it was a stupid assertion for the reasons I mentioned prior. You just don't rise in the officiating ranks as a D! official has and ever consider doing anything like that. Officials are human. and make mistakes. It is crazy to me a coach, or any fanbase can think some calls to change a game were intentional against them.

On the surface, BB, I agree with you. Now, when you start digging deeper and combine it with the human emotional element...I do think somewhere in there, on occasion, referees can underhandedly - maybe subconsciously is what I'm thinking - stick it to a team.

Read a book called Blink, by Malcolm Gladwell. Or at least review the cliff notes.

My point...if a referee has a poor relationship with a coach, or a particular crowd, year after year, shoot even a couple times a year, shoot even in the course of one freakin' game...and he/she continually gets crap that for the most part may not be deserved...you don't think that somewhere in there, on a 50/50 call (don't tell me there aren't 50/50 calls-what I mean is like a block/charge, sometimes the play is so close it could go either way or left alone)...I'm digressing, but you don't think all that mental buildup from coach and fan 'abuse' doesn't add up, at least in the subconscious, to where subconsciously (or heaven forbid, even consciously) an official might lean towards one team when it comes to a 50/50 call?? Or a late-game changing call?

They're human. I don't see how that isn't possible. It's a bit of delicious theatre and I rather enjoy it. They're human!! I'm curious. Have you ever gotten pissed at a coach or crowd, or heck, even a player? Maybe where for a minute or so you were borderline irrational, at least in your head??

Now, let me state that what took place with Higgins was REPREHENSIBLE. I don't believe he was trying to screw an entire fan base (but if he were wouldn't that be a sweet platform to do it on), and the fan base response was disgusting. It. Was. Wrong. And I'll go to bat 100 times out of 100 for Higgy on that one.

Also, what coaches say in press conferences, after a tough and emotional loss, should be taken with some salt. Marshall was stupid in saying it, but he's hardly the only guy in The Valley, let alone college basketball, who has innuendo'd such a thing.

All this just food for thought.
Last edited by Humdinger on Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

Humdinger
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:37 am

As I think about 'emotional' events, since we're talking about MagicMarshall...can't help but giggle and laugh at the Muller/Marshall hallway shabang. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I think both of them are a couple of interesting cats. I'll betcha they'd be tight friends if the heated rivalry wasn't there. Both competitive as hell.

Anywho...

Can anyone tell me what the heck our coach's last name is?? Is it Mueller...Miller...Mallott...

Tpguy
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:05 pm

I think it's only fair that the ref gives the game to the highest bidder, after all they don't make that much money and they have a family to feed.

Humdinger
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:01 pm

Tpguy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:05 pm
I think it's only fair that the ref gives the game to the highest bidder, after all they don't make that much money and they have a family to feed.

TP you're so thoughtful. How refreshing!

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Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:38 pm

Humdinger wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 4:01 pm
Tpguy wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:05 pm
I think it's only fair that the ref gives the game to the highest bidder, after all they don't make that much money and they have a family to feed.

TP you're so thoughtful. How refreshing!
Reason we stopped winning those bidding wars was cuz the refs finally figured out what TPguy meant when he said he could give them rolls and rolls of paper.
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ISU FAN 1
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Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:58 pm

bb fan wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:23 am
Really it is just plain stupid for fans to think the officials are on the take, or someone is trying to set their team up for a loss via biased officiating.
Ever hear of Tim Donaghy?

Throughbirdseyes
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Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:10 pm

Two of the three referees in the last Loyola game were MVC officials, one being Pollard. Was surprised to see this for an elite eight game...NCAA head of officials JD Collins is showing he likes his cronies.....Higgins and sKip-boy also seen in tourney...

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isuquinndog
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:00 am

You were surprised to see refs like Pollard and Higgins? Higgins has done multiple final fours over his career and Pollard has done multiple Elite Eight games. I don't think he has a Final Four yet.

I know ISU fans like to bash these guys and so on. They aren't "MVC" refs either, they do some MVC games but mostly P5 conference games. Pollard and Higgins are both considered two of the best officials in the country.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!

birdballfan
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:20 am

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:00 am
You were surprised to see refs like Pollard and Higgins? Higgins has done multiple final fours over his career and Pollard has done multiple Elite Eight games. I don't think he has a Final Four yet.

I know ISU fans like to bash these guys and so on. They aren't "MVC" refs either, they do some MVC games but mostly P5 conference games. Pollard and Higgins are both considered two of the best officials in the country.
I think Higgins is great despite the controversy in the Kentucky game last year (I think it was). Pollard is good as well but likes to be noticed too much and in so doing draws the ire of many bball fans!!!!

bb fan
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:18 pm

Good points, Quinnie. Really, we are in deep do-do if guys like Pollard and Higgins are as terrible as some fans make them out to be. These are the best trained, most experienced, most vetted people working D1 basketball today. There is little hope that anyone can be successful if you think these guys are not cutting it.

I have always liked John Higgins. He may be one of the very best officials ever to officiate a college basketball game. I think Gerry Pollard is an excellent official as well. I think he makes great calls and knows the rules as well as anyone. Sometimes I do think he spends excessive, unneeded time talking to players, coaches, media and even fans during the game. He is one of those guys that sometimes seems he has to be noticed. He seems to have a quick trigger finger on calling the T. And as others have said, the best officiated game is one where the ref is never noticed, virtually invisible. I think Pollard gets himself in trouble once in awhile being too concerned and intrusive. But I rarely can tell or know what he is talking about, so most of it is probably warranted. I have come to like the game he calls more and more each year.

SgtHulka
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm

Higgins was bad in the early days but has turning into a good ref. Pollard... He's a showboat and his background in being a cop shows through in his reffing. If he would realize we aren't there to watch him he would be fine.
RIP Frank Y, Mother Hulka, Berg, Ray F, Jim and Janet T
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MadBird
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:25 pm

SgtHulka wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Higgins was bad in the early days but has turning into a good ref. Pollard... He's a showboat and his background in being a cop shows through in his reffing. If he would realize we aren't there to watch him he would be fine.
I agree on both of these. Higgins is a veteran and when he's calling the game you can at least expect fair. Pollard I'm not fond of, he's a "provocator", seems to be looking to get into it with anyone who gives him guff. Like TV Ted Valentine in this regard. Never feel good about having
him call the game, Pollard that is.

Higgins does mostly Big 12 games these days, don't think he did much Big 10 this year. Pollard is more CUSA, AAC, etc. along with MVC, I think. There are some websites with ref stats that will give that info.

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isuquinndog
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:59 pm

MadBird wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:25 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Higgins was bad in the early days but has turning into a good ref. Pollard... He's a showboat and his background in being a cop shows through in his reffing. If he would realize we aren't there to watch him he would be fine.
I agree on both of these. Higgins is a veteran and when he's calling the game you can at least expect fair. Pollard I'm not fond of, he's a "provocator", seems to be looking to get into it with anyone who gives him guff. Like TV Ted Valentine in this regard. Never feel good about having
him call the game, Pollard that is.

Higgins does mostly Big 12 games these days, don't think he did much Big 10 this year. Pollard is more CUSA, AAC, etc. along with MVC, I think. There are some websites with ref stats that will give that info.
The ref stats site is gone, I believe.
LET'S WIN THIS GAME!

MadBird
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:46 pm

isuquinndog wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:59 pm
MadBird wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:25 pm
SgtHulka wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:31 pm
Higgins was bad in the early days but has turning into a good ref. Pollard... He's a showboat and his background in being a cop shows through in his reffing. If he would realize we aren't there to watch him he would be fine.
I agree on both of these. Higgins is a veteran and when he's calling the game you can at least expect fair. Pollard I'm not fond of, he's a "provocator", seems to be looking to get into it with anyone who gives him guff. Like TV Ted Valentine in this regard. Never feel good about having
him call the game, Pollard that is.

Higgins does mostly Big 12 games these days, don't think he did much Big 10 this year. Pollard is more CUSA, AAC, etc. along with MVC, I think. There are some websites with ref stats that will give that info.
The ref stats site is gone, I believe.
There's another one not as good as the old one, but I'm tech challenged on "spring break" right now, will try to dig up the link.

bb fan
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:50 pm

Pollard does quite a bit of Big12 as well. He is also an assignor of officials for several D2 and D3 midwest conferences. I receive an email from him every now and again regarding clinics.

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Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:12 pm

bb fan wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:50 pm
Pollard does quite a bit of Big12 as well. He is also an assignor of officials for several D2 and D3 midwest conferences. I receive an email from him every now and again regarding clinics.
Does he need a good clinic?
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bb fan
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:27 pm

Pollard recommends clinics to officials and he is a clinician at several clinics.

bb fan
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Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:35 pm

This site might be of interest... www.HoopsOfficiating.com

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