#3 Illinois State vs #1 Loyola

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
bb fan
Sophomore
Posts: 437
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2017 11:44 am

Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am

Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.

ISU FAN 1
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:22 am

bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am
Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.
My perception is that there is a balance of Kool-aid drinkers and the non Kool-Aid variety. Your perception that "it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are" reflect how thin skinned you are to any Redbird criticism. Seriously, there is a significant camp of positive posters on this forum. I think the tenor of this board spans a very broad range of perspectives. Diversity of opinion is a good thing.

redneckredbird
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:23 am

I didn't take offense to u saying hilarious, but it just seems soooo similar to me from about 4 years ago. I try to not post many of the negative things I see, because I just don't like the hostility is perpetuates. I just look at the young guys and see a lot of positives. If Bruninga can learn one post move on offense and be able to rebound better on defense, he could look a lot like deonte did, that helps this team a bunch too! He was just physically outmanned this year. I honestly think if this team has a better defensive mentality next year, they can be dangerous. Too many breakdowns leading to easy baskets getting beat off the dribble and fouling shooters. If that changes, much like last year, watch out.

CaliRdBrd
Sophomore
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:34 am

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:24 am
Brick wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:12 am
Madison just a sophomore. He will get better. He needs to add penetration to his game to be more effective. He has good size at six three and he is certainly athletic enough. The jury is out on EC. He's also athletic and great size at six five but can only go left effectively at this point. But again only played half his freshman year. I still say Copeland will have a major impact next year. Time will tell
If we need guys to be seniors before we can expect big things, then we have already been to our last Big Dance. Loyola just destroyed us with their freshman center. Recruit better players. That's why 2019-20 looks so bleak. Absolutely nothing on the current roster to hang out hat on based on what we have seen from underclassmen. Copeland probably already planning his grad transfer exit strategy based on what'll be left.
Exactly. Quote of the century.

CaliRdBrd
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am

bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am
Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.
The only reason MY appears “inconsistent “ is because he is trying too hard to carry a team full of players that cannot make a basket.

ISU FAN 1
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:40 am

redneckredbird wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:23 am
I didn't take offense to u saying hilarious, but it just seems soooo similar to me from about 4 years ago. I try to not post many of the negative things I see, because I just don't like the hostility is perpetuates. I just look at the young guys and see a lot of positives. If Bruninga can learn one post move on offense and be able to rebound better on defense, he could look a lot like deonte did, that helps this team a bunch too! He was just physically outmanned this year. I honestly think if this team has a better defensive mentality next year, they can be dangerous. Too many breakdowns leading to easy baskets getting beat off the dribble and fouling shooters. If that changes, much like last year, watch out.
Bruninga bulking up has more to do with being able to guard a big, and compete for rebounds. I don’t think we can ever expect him to defend a guard. I’m all for him launching 3s, and think our offense should run more stuff to get him open looks. Some of these guys would be so much better with a point guard that could break down a defense and create for others. But the added bulk would give him options inside that currently aren’t a part of his offensive repertoire, and make him tougher to defend.

V Boy
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Posts: 327
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:29 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am
bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am
Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.
The only reason MY appears “inconsistent “ is because he is trying too hard to carry a team full of players that cannot make a basket.
This year's team had the same problem the 2016 Redbird team had. The forwards/wings had to handle the ball too much on the perimeter or driving to the basket. Yarbrough should not be playing point-forward. He's only doing that because he has to. It's not some big competitive advantage we have. It's actually a weakness. The same could be said for Akoon-Purcell and McIntosh.

Last year Lee finally took over all of that responsibility and the team was much better for it. Now Lee is gone.....Evans is probably not the right person for that (and he was hurt) and Clarance wasn't ready.

Make not mistake, one of the keys to our team next year will be solving this problem.

DoubleDeuce
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:48 pm

One of my favorite moments was watching Gassman guard Krukwig...the size difference struck me as hilarious. Really drove home how large Krukwig really is, or maybe how scrawny Gassman is. Despite the difference, Gassman really busted his tail end. there was a stretch in that game where Gassman played better than anyone on the court.

DWRedbird
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:10 pm

V Boy wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:29 pm
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am
bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am
Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.
The only reason MY appears “inconsistent “ is because he is trying too hard to carry a team full of players that cannot make a basket.
This year's team had the same problem the 2016 Redbird team had. The forwards/wings had to handle the ball too much on the perimeter or driving to the basket. Yarbrough should not be playing point-forward. He's only doing that because he has to. It's not some big competitive advantage we have. It's actually a weakness. The same could be said for Akoon-Purcell and McIntosh.

Last year Lee finally took over all of that responsibility and the team was much better for it. Now Lee is gone.....Evans is probably not the right person for that (and he was hurt) and Clarance wasn't ready.

Make not mistake, one of the keys to our team next year will be solving this problem.
I would largely agree with this. While Point Forwards are a nice change of pace in the game, they shouldn't be the primary facilitator of the offense. I agree we need a guard facilitating the offense that can get MY the ball either in the post or at the top of the key so he can post up/drive the lane and play to his strengths.

MY is at his best when he can get the ball and go right to the basket and either go in hard for the lay up or dish it off to Phil or out to a shooter. Once he starts dribbling around at the top of the key, or trying to shake a guy off the dribble he is going to lose the ball, because he isn't as strong a dribbler as he thinks he is. I do think if he works on his dribbling, and dribbling in traffic in the offseason he could take that next step overall, and just dominate next year. Add shot consistency to the mix and the kid will win POY hands down.

JHBird
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:14 pm

DoubleDeuce wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 am
Recovering from another deflating Sunday. I have no doubt the team gave all they had, but that bad shooting wreaks of dead dead legs. Sounds like everyone is ready to harness the frustration and focus on improving....can't wait for the next game!

How about that pathetic Loyola showing at the Fan Hangout on Sunday? Must've missed early mass and had to make the late show.
We were on our way Sunday morning to the Fan Hoopla event, and as we were walking by the Loyola host hotel we heard a marching band playing. I think they just had a rally for themselves and blew off the one they were supposed to go to. So the Fan Hangout became an ISU event by default, but yeah, I thought that was pathetic for them not to show up. WSU fans showed up last year.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:19 pm

JHBird wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:14 pm
DoubleDeuce wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:58 am
Recovering from another deflating Sunday. I have no doubt the team gave all they had, but that bad shooting wreaks of dead dead legs. Sounds like everyone is ready to harness the frustration and focus on improving....can't wait for the next game!

How about that pathetic Loyola showing at the Fan Hangout on Sunday? Must've missed early mass and had to make the late show.
We were on our way Sunday morning to the Fan Hoopla event, and as we were walking by the Loyola host hotel we heard a marching band playing. I think they just had a rally for themselves and blew off the one they were supposed to go to. So the Fan Hangout became an ISU event by default, but yeah, I thought that was pathetic for them not to show up. WSU fans showed up last year.
Loyola and Porter haven’t been to the championship game before. They probably didn’t understand expectations.
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redneckredbird
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:46 pm

V Boy wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:29 pm
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am
bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:13 am
Hilarious may not have been the right word, redneckredbird. The interesting thing about predictions here is that usually on a partisan fan board like ours, the predictions are almost always pie in the sky positive stuff about the team, players and coach that never came true. But here on good ol' Redbirdfan, it is a bunch of predictions about how terrible the players and coach and team are that rarely come true. As I have said many times, no kool aid allowed to be served here. I guess I can be happy that we have posters terrible with their predictions.

I agree we looked tired and beat up yesterday. You could tell Key was struggling. I had a feeling we were in for a long day when those first close in shots were not dropping. I was pleased with the shots we were getting. But we came out dazed, and LUC was fresh and focused. As they have been all season.

Look up inconsistency, and you will find #52. I don't think we have had a player that can look soooo good, then sooooo bad from game to game, sometimes within a game. I have come away from some games thinking there is nothing Milik can't do amazingly well. then the next game he is dribbling the ball off his foot or throwing a pass into the 5th row. I hope he can clean that up. Because he can be very, very good and will will be very, very good.
The only reason MY appears “inconsistent “ is because he is trying too hard to carry a team full of players that cannot make a basket.
This year's team had the same problem the 2016 Redbird team had. The forwards/wings had to handle the ball too much on the perimeter or driving to the basket. Yarbrough should not be playing point-forward. He's only doing that because he has to. It's not some big competitive advantage we have. It's actually a weakness. The same could be said for Akoon-Purcell and McIntosh.

Last year Lee finally took over all of that responsibility and the team was much better for it. Now Lee is gone.....Evans is probably not the right person for that (and he was hurt) and Clarance wasn't ready.

Make not mistake, one of the keys to our team next year will be solving this problem.
This is spot on. Imagine if Malik could catch the ball off someone else driving the lane. Then the defenders are outta position and he has options. That would work out well for Malik and his game. I know EC didn't show it this year, and he may not next year, but he has the tools to b that guy to make everyone else open.

CB2K
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:42 pm

If EC can start hitting shots and playing under control so he learns when to turn his burners on and drive and when to cool the jets then he could become something special. He has all the raw tools and size to become a really good point guard. Right now, when I see him bringing the ball up the court he makes me nervous like he is a turnover waiting to happen mostly by freshman inexperience. However, he did miss half the year and has shown improvement and sparks of what he can become. It takes awhile for most kids to learn the college game especially when they are so eager to show what they've got. I like what Kurt Pegler said on one of his broadcasts that EC may finally be learning not to go 80 in a 40 mile an hour zone which means the game is slowing down for him and is starting to let the game come to him. They all see the talent he has and potential -- we just have to be patience with the underclassman and let DM and staff develop him.

bb fan
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:00 pm

Milik can turn the ball over at any time. When team mates are scoring and when they are not. It is all about attention and focus on detail. I really don't know how you dribble the ball off your foot when you think you are carrying the team or not. And please, don't take it like I don't like the kid or appreciate his efforts. He has won many games for us. But he has lost a couple as well. A couple when we have had good scoring contributions from several player when the team was ahead. I think he is a terrific talent when he holds things together. He will be better next season for us.

V Boy
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:05 pm

bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:00 pm
Milik can turn the ball over at any time. When team mates are scoring and when they are not. It is all about attention and focus on detail. I really don't know how you dribble the ball off your foot when you think you are carrying the team or not. And please, don't take it like I don't like the kid or appreciate his efforts. He has won many games for us. But he has lost a couple as well. A couple when we have had good scoring contributions from several player when the team was ahead. I think he is a terrific talent when he holds things together. He will be better next season for us.
He turns it over too much because Muller tries to run the offense through him 40 feet from the hoop. That has to end now.

Yarbrough should play in the high post against the zone and on the wing against a man to man.

Here’s the thing. If Muller doesn’t think Clarance can run the team by the first game next year, then he has to go out and get JUCO PG right now.

This is our window. BYU, Dunk City, Ole Miss and San Diego St at home. Preseason tournament.

You HAVE to win all those games. All of them. In order to get at-large you gotta be nearly undefeated in non-con and no more than 2 losses in league. Gotta be like 29-3.

Is Elijah Clarance ready to win all those games? I don’t have any reason to believe he is ready to do that.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:16 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:37 am
The only reason MY appears “inconsistent “ is because he is trying too hard to carry a team full of players that cannot make a basket.
I thought it was because he scored a lot some games, not so much other. Had a lot of assists some games, not so much others. Had a lot of turnovers some games, not so much others.

Plus, he dribbled the ball off his foot more often than McIntosh did last year, which is saying a lot. He could pinpoint a pass to an open man one time down the floor, and then throw a pass in the general direction of nowhere the next time, followed by a great drive and dish, followed by a pass broadcast so broadly that my 85-yr old father could intercept it with his walker.

MY looked inconsistent because he was inconsistent.
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:17 pm

V Boy wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:05 pm
bb fan wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:00 pm
Milik can turn the ball over at any time. When team mates are scoring and when they are not. It is all about attention and focus on detail. I really don't know how you dribble the ball off your foot when you think you are carrying the team or not. And please, don't take it like I don't like the kid or appreciate his efforts. He has won many games for us. But he has lost a couple as well. A couple when we have had good scoring contributions from several player when the team was ahead. I think he is a terrific talent when he holds things together. He will be better next season for us.
He turns it over too much because Muller tries to run the offense through him 40 feet from the hoop. That has to end now.

Yarbrough should play in the high post against the zone and on the wing against a man to man.

Here’s the thing. If Muller doesn’t think Clarance can run the team by the first game next year, then he has to go out and get JUCO PG right now.

This is our window. BYU, Dunk City, Ole Miss and San Diego St at home. Preseason tournament.

You HAVE to win all those games. All of them. In order to get at-large you gotta be nearly undefeated in non-con and no more than 2 losses in league. Gotta be like 29-3.

Is Elijah Clarance ready to win all those games? I don’t have any reason to believe he is ready to do that.
I'm pretty sure Milik won't be running the offense from 40-feet out for the next 6 months.
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Humdinger
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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:18 pm

MILIK had NINE games where he turned the ball over at least 6 times, with two games featuring 9TO's in each game.

For whatever reason, he consistently turned the ball over ALL YEAR. He may not have been our most valuable player, but you can't look at him and not think he's our BEST player. He is. One of the best In The Valley if not the best. All-American potential based on the triple threat stat. Great eyes. Shoots a soft shot that teardrops into the net.

But goodness gracious sakes alive says Coach Wooden...ALL THOSE TURNOVERS. That's a lot of turnovers. He'd better be handing out 10 dimes a game with all those turnovers.

If we're gonna be REALLY GOOD next year, Milik just cannot turn the ball over like that - because the ball will be in his hands a lot. It has to be! But the dude was an amazing paradox this year.

I'm HAPPY to have him on my team, though. But please. Can we keep it to 2 a game on average??

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:27 pm

Amusing stat.
MILIK had 126 turnovers.
Hein had 128 points.

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Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:27 pm

Humdinger wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:18 pm
MILIK had NINE games where he turned the ball over at least 6 times, with two games featuring 9TO's in each game.

For whatever reason, he consistently turned the ball over ALL YEAR. He may not have been our most valuable player, but you can't look at him and not think he's our BEST player. He is. One of the best In The Valley if not the best. All-American potential based on the triple threat stat. Great eyes. Shoots a soft shot that teardrops into the net.

But goodness gracious sakes alive says Coach Wooden...ALL THOSE TURNOVERS. That's a lot of turnovers. He'd better be handing out 10 dimes a game with all those turnovers.

If we're gonna be REALLY GOOD next year, Milik just cannot turn the ball over like that - because the ball will be in his hands a lot. It has to be! But the dude was an amazing paradox this year.

I'm HAPPY to have him on my team, though. But please. Can we keep it to 2 a game on average??
I'll be seriously impressed if he can pull of a quadruple double next year . . . points, boards, assists, and turnovers . . . I may also be seriously pissed if we lose because of turnovers.
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