Redbirds @ Salukis 1-13-18 5pm

The place to talk MVC Champion Redbird Men's Basketball
ChiRedbirdfan
Junior
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:20 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:09 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:55 pm
Bdub777 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:11 pm


Of course they count but so does losing games we should have won, squandering leads in games we won but should have dominated and so does a record way below what it should be. If you aren’t disappointed by this loss, I don’t know what to say. You can’t defend everything, or can you?
Sure, I'm disappointed. To not be would be crass. I just don't overreact like some. It's funny that before the last two games, the team was considered a tough 2nd half team. Now we have fans saying we NEVER close out games. Hogwash. Winning a game is closing out a game.

It might also help for some of our fans to get a little realistic about this team. We're 9-9. We've one 2 games by more than 7 points, and 1 was against Quincy. We've had 5 losses greater than 10 points, and in none of them were we at all close to winning.

Frankly, I think this team isn't as good as our record is, and yet our record could be much better. We're wildly inconsistent. We play to the level of what we perceive our opponents to be. I'm sure there's nobody more frustrated by this season than Dan Muller.

But some fans act as if a bad year (which we should have anticipated considering what we lost from last year, regardless of the hype of some players!) is a personal affront to their happiness. Frankly, some fans need to put their priorities in order. This is still a flippin' game played by young men, usually not fully matured. The angst displayed by some fans on here is just as disappointing as the last two games have been.
I'm just very tired of being the laughingstock of the NCAA and, more importantly, the laughing stock of all my family, friends and coworkers who attended universities where they have actually compete and have made the tournament several times since the Stone Age...unlike the Birds.
This conference is easily at the lowest point it's been in my 50 years and we still can't compete?!?

In my opinion, a little anger is a good thing...especially is if means lighting a fire under this teams' ass.
:text-+1:

CB2K
Freshman
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:54 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:50 pm

One recurring theme has been the high rate of turnovers. Playing hard on defense has been a battle all year. Put those two together and it adds up for tough times on he hardwood.

A recent article in the Vidette reported DM saying that he is frustrated because bad passes are continually thrown after he has repeatedly told them not to make those kinds of passes. That has got to be frustrating to him.

Other teams have figured out a simple game plan -- double team MY and PF and make the others beat you; foul PF and put him on the line (backfired once) ; and frustrate MY so he tries to play beyond himself.

So, it is now on the team to adjust to this game plan. Coaching staff needs to corral MY and keep the team working on defense. This team can win some nice games but also lose some they should have won. They need to make some in season adjustments to how they are being defended.

Nice to see EC start looking confident and making some contributions. Tinsley is looking better as well.

Redbirdfan06
Freshman
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:20 pm
Birdfriend72 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:05 pm
Santa Cason wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:02 pm


Maybe it means more to others than you? I mean, in the grand scheme of things, who are you to be critical of others if it does?

Telling people to put their priorities in order because they are upset about a program they care about is a joke to me.

I think I’ll take some advice from others on here and take the rest of the night off.

Birdfriend sounds like some old codger that sits in his recliner, and falls asleep when the Street lights come on! He says he cares, but he is ok with the below mediocrity!
Insight: caring does not equal being angry. Not being angry does not mean being okay with mediocrity. Life has its up and downs. So do teams like ISU. This year seems to be down. Sometimes you can do something to help move the direction back upward. Yelling at the team and coaching staff via a fan board usually isn't something that will move the direction back upward.

If I'm going to do something useless, I'd much rather yell at the fans yelling at the team.
So I guess no matter who the coach of isu is and what kind of non conference schedule this team plays we should be supportive and not point out the flaws of this team? Is that what you are saying? Because, if a team plays an easy non conference schedule and can win games in the valley that’s the most important thing. Or, is it the team that plays a tough non conference and doesn’t bring it over to the valley season. I think it’s the natural reaction for people to be frustated for a team that can’t hold on to a double digit lead with 7 minutes left and get a little frustrated about the coaching. How do people need to be taking this loss?

V Boy
Freshman
Posts: 179
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:05 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 pm

Just another practice game.

When Drake goes from last to first in one year then your league officially sucks.

Keep playing Clarance. He’s the only hope for catching lightning in a bottle by years end. And he’s the only one who can stop this ultra-dumb Yarbrough point forward turnover machine experiment.

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Bird Friend
Junior
Posts: 658
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:29 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:45 pm

Redbirdfan06 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:20 pm
Birdfriend72 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:05 pm



Birdfriend sounds like some old codger that sits in his recliner, and falls asleep when the Street lights come on! He says he cares, but he is ok with the below mediocrity!
Insight: caring does not equal being angry. Not being angry does not mean being okay with mediocrity. Life has its up and downs. So do teams like ISU. This year seems to be down. Sometimes you can do something to help move the direction back upward. Yelling at the team and coaching staff via a fan board usually isn't something that will move the direction back upward.

If I'm going to do something useless, I'd much rather yell at the fans yelling at the team.
So I guess no matter who the coach of isu is and what kind of non conference schedule this team plays we should be supportive and not point out the flaws of this team? Is that what you are saying? Because, if a team plays an easy non conference schedule and can win games in the valley that’s the most important thing. Or, is it the team that plays a tough non conference and doesn’t bring it over to the valley season. I think it’s the natural reaction for people to be frustated for a team that can’t hold on to a double digit lead with 7 minutes left and get a little frustrated about the coaching. How do people need to be taking this loss?
Frustration is one thing. Hysteria is another.
Image

Redbirdfan06
Freshman
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:41 pm

Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:53 pm

Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:45 pm
Redbirdfan06 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:20 pm


Insight: caring does not equal being angry. Not being angry does not mean being okay with mediocrity. Life has its up and downs. So do teams like ISU. This year seems to be down. Sometimes you can do something to help move the direction back upward. Yelling at the team and coaching staff via a fan board usually isn't something that will move the direction back upward.

If I'm going to do something useless, I'd much rather yell at the fans yelling at the team.
So I guess no matter who the coach of isu is and what kind of non conference schedule this team plays we should be supportive and not point out the flaws of this team? Is that what you are saying? Because, if a team plays an easy non conference schedule and can win games in the valley that’s the most important thing. Or, is it the team that plays a tough non conference and doesn’t bring it over to the valley season. I think it’s the natural reaction for people to be frustated for a team that can’t hold on to a double digit lead with 7 minutes left and get a little frustrated about the coaching. How do people need to be taking this loss?
Frustration is one thing. Hysteria is another.
No I think it was pretty on point and people are sick of your condescending attitude towards anyone that has as opinion anti Muller. Doesn’t mean we don’t want him as a coach but you need to welcome the world of sports now
Last edited by Redbirdfan06 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

dpdoughbird06
Freshman
Posts: 166
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:21 am

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:01 am

Something buried in all this is the loss of Coach Yak to Michigan. He's known for coaching defense. There was always going to be regression with Paris and Tony graduating and Deontae and Mikyle moving on, but Yak is enjoying rave reviews for the throttling Michigan just delivered at Sparty.

I have no idea how much credit (and also blame) you can assign a coach, but let's remember it's significant that Muller not only has a lot of players he's breaking into his system this year, but also a pair of coaches on his bench. I'm sure he won't use this as an excuse, but it can't be easy to carry over last year's expectations on D with so much turnover.

cubird
Freshman
Posts: 115
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:01 am

Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:14 am

Oh boy. Get ready for the tired of excuses gang waking up to your post tomorrow am :!:

Metamoron
Freshman
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:31 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:08 am

CB2K wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:50 pm
One recurring theme has been the high rate of turnovers. Playing hard on defense has been a battle all year. Put those two together and it adds up for tough times on he hardwood.

A recent article in the Vidette reported DM saying that he is frustrated because bad passes are continually thrown after he has repeatedly told them not to make those kinds of passes. That has got to be frustrating to him.

Other teams have figured out a simple game plan -- double team MY and PF and make the others beat you; foul PF and put him on the line (backfired once) ; and frustrate MY so he tries to play beyond himself.

So, it is now on the team to adjust to this game plan. Coaching staff needs to corral MY and keep the team working on defense. This team can win some nice games but also lose some they should have won. They need to make some in season adjustments to how they are being defended.

Nice to see EC start looking confident and making some contributions. Tinsley is looking better as well.
Best post in about 4 pages.

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RBFANTOO
Freshman
Posts: 59
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:35 am
Location: Anywhere but Bradley

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 am

dpdoughbird06 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:01 am

I have no idea how much credit (and also blame) you can assign a coach, but let's remember it's significant that Muller not only has a lot of players he's breaking into his system this year, but also a pair of coaches on his bench. I'm sure he won't use this as an excuse, but it can't be easy to carry over last year's expectations on D with so much turnover.
And so many turnovers this year.
Redbird Nation Rising

Chicagobirdfan
Freshman
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:39 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:42 am

Sladerunningbear wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:19 pm
I know every team does it, but it just seems we blow an inordinate amount of games....Northern Iowa, Wichita State, UCF, Wyoming, SIU...etc.

Tired of it!
I agree since muller has been our coach we have blown a lot of big leads. Not sure if it is coincidence or something with his style. Generally when we get out to big leads it’s because we are hot from 3 point range, when the other team figures it out, we don’t make necessary adjustments to win the game. Not exactly the case in this game, but some of the others mentioned it is.

Brick
Freshman
Posts: 138
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:02 am

We do seem to blow leads a lot. I agree it’s often because we are so 3 happy. Sometimes we have a lead because of 3s and then inevitably cool off OR like last night we get a lead hammering it inside to Fayne and then go brain dead and forget how we got the lead and start firing threes up ESPECIALLY with a hand in the face. We show a lack of patience when teams make runs at us and fire up dumb shots instead of going inside. The ONE exception was against Mo state when the game was on the line we hammered it inside for scores and fouls. I had hoped that would be a lesson learned but didn’t seem to sink in

Redbird222
Freshman
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:33 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:09 am

V Boy wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:40 pm
Just another practice game.



Keep playing Clarance. He’s the only hope for catching lightning in a bottle by years end. And he’s the only one who can stop this ultra-dumb Yarbrough point forward turnover machine experiment.
I agree with playing Clarance more and letting him find his rhythm and getting him acclimated to the college level. I admit I bought into the hype but I really believe there is something there. He has he ability to penetrate throw laser passes. He needs to work on entries passes when he is out front and not penetrating but so does the entire team. He also has great size for a point guard. I know he is making mistakes on defense but so are others. Getting him experience and confidence should be one of our top priorities.

In my opinion Evans is not a point guard. He can create a shot for himself but his passing is not great. It often does not hit his teammate so that they are in a good shooting position. Subtle difference that a good passer can do. BTW Evans really looked banged up the second half. He was noticeably limping and did not seem to habe that burst on offense or defense the second half.

ISU has utilized the point forward/wing for several years whether it was DAP, MM, or MY. It has had been very erratic and generally those players have had a high turnover ratio. Of these 3 individuals, I do believe that MY is the best passer and finisher but having 2 players that can create is a good thing. The defenses have game planned for MY and now we need to counter ... of course you have to have the ability to counter.

Birdfriend72
Sophomore
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:10 am

CB2K wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:50 pm
One recurring theme has been the high rate of turnovers. Playing hard on defense has been a battle all year. Put those two together and it adds up for tough times on he hardwood.

A recent article in the Vidette reported DM saying that he is frustrated because bad passes are continually thrown after he has repeatedly told them not to make those kinds of passes. That has got to be frustrating to him.

Other teams have figured out a simple game plan -- double team MY and PF and make the others beat you; foul PF and put him on the line (backfired once) ; and frustrate MY so he tries to play beyond himself.

So, it is now on the team to adjust to this game plan. Coaching staff needs to corral MY and keep the team working on defense. This team can win some nice games but also lose some they should have won. They need to make some in season adjustments to how they are being defended.

Nice to see EC start looking confident and making some contributions. Tinsley is looking better as well.

We have two players able to creat their own shots (Evans & Yarborough). We have three players you can count on to put the ball in the bucket. I like what some of these other guys bring to the table...but if your 4th & 5Th starter are basketball challenged...this is an easy team to defend. This does fall on Muller. If you are going to recruit a 2/1...the player you are really going after better be what you thought he was. Pretty said that Hein has been the better player. DAVID has one more year left to make this recruiting strategy look like a good idea.

Birdfriend72
Sophomore
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:15 am

Redbirdfan06 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:53 pm
Bird Friend wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:45 pm
Redbirdfan06 wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm


So I guess no matter who the coach of isu is and what kind of non conference schedule this team plays we should be supportive and not point out the flaws of this team? Is that what you are saying? Because, if a team plays an easy non conference schedule and can win games in the valley that’s the most important thing. Or, is it the team that plays a tough non conference and doesn’t bring it over to the valley season. I think it’s the natural reaction for people to be frustated for a team that can’t hold on to a double digit lead with 7 minutes left and get a little frustrated about the coaching. How do people need to be taking this loss?
Frustration is one thing. Hysteria is another.
No I think it was pretty on point and people are sick of your condescending attitude towards anyone that has as opinion anti Muller. Doesn’t mean we don’t want him as a coach but you need to welcome the world of sports now
He is welcoming it. There is as many people inside Redbird Arena that is on this board. Quinn does a very good job of running this board. I apologize for offending birdfriend. I am not going to apologize for expecting more from Dan. I don’t care what kind of player he was. I care about what kind of team he is building. If he wants division 3 players...go to the CCIW. If he wants to win...he needs to change the strategy.

Birdfriend72
Sophomore
Posts: 206
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:36 am

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:18 am

dpdoughbird06 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:01 am
Something buried in all this is the loss of Coach Yak to Michigan. He's known for coaching defense. There was always going to be regression with Paris and Tony graduating and Deontae and Mikyle moving on, but Yak is enjoying rave reviews for the throttling Michigan just delivered at Sparty.

I have no idea how much credit (and also blame) you can assign a coach, but let's remember it's significant that Muller not only has a lot of players he's breaking into his system this year, but also a pair of coaches on his bench. I'm sure he won't use this as an excuse, but it can't be easy to carry over last year's expectations on D with so much turnover.


Don’t be surprised if Malik moves on. If he is truly an NBA prospect...he will be following in Deontae and Mikyle footsteps. He won’t get the recognition here he deserves.

Redbird222
Freshman
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:33 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:34 am

dpdoughbird06 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:01 am
Something buried in all this is the loss of Coach Yak to Michigan. He's known for coaching defense. There was always going to be regression with Paris and Tony graduating and Deontae and Mikyle moving on, but Yak is enjoying rave reviews for the throttling Michigan just delivered at Sparty.

I have no idea how much credit (and also blame) you can assign a coach, but let's remember it's significant that Muller not only has a lot of players he's breaking into his system this year, but also a pair of coaches on his bench. I'm sure he won't use this as an excuse, but it can't be easy to carry over last year's expectations on D with so much turnover.
Good point on Coach Yak and I do think we over look this

Redbirdfan21
Sophomore
Posts: 286
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield, IL
Contact:

Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:11 am

Redbird222 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:34 am
dpdoughbird06 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:01 am
Something buried in all this is the loss of Coach Yak to Michigan. He's known for coaching defense. There was always going to be regression with Paris and Tony graduating and Deontae and Mikyle moving on, but Yak is enjoying rave reviews for the throttling Michigan just delivered at Sparty.

I have no idea how much credit (and also blame) you can assign a coach, but let's remember it's significant that Muller not only has a lot of players he's breaking into his system this year, but also a pair of coaches on his bench. I'm sure he won't use this as an excuse, but it can't be easy to carry over last year's expectations on D with so much turnover.
Good point on Coach Yak and I do think we over look this
This is correct. As a Michigan fan I follow their boards and social media bloggers. Yak is getting all sorts of praise for their defense. I’ll see if I can find the stat, but their defensive rankings to date are higher then they have ever been by a Beilein coached team.

ISU FAN 1
Junior
Posts: 664
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:03 am

Birdfriend72 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:10 am
CB2K wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:50 pm
One recurring theme has been the high rate of turnovers. Playing hard on defense has been a battle all year. Put those two together and it adds up for tough times on he hardwood.

A recent article in the Vidette reported DM saying that he is frustrated because bad passes are continually thrown after he has repeatedly told them not to make those kinds of passes. That has got to be frustrating to him.

Other teams have figured out a simple game plan -- double team MY and PF and make the others beat you; foul PF and put him on the line (backfired once) ; and frustrate MY so he tries to play beyond himself.

So, it is now on the team to adjust to this game plan. Coaching staff needs to corral MY and keep the team working on defense. This team can win some nice games but also lose some they should have won. They need to make some in season adjustments to how they are being defended.

Nice to see EC start looking confident and making some contributions. Tinsley is looking better as well.

We have two players able to creat their own shots (Evans & Yarborough). We have three players you can count on to put the ball in the bucket. I like what some of these other guys bring to the table...but if your 4th & 5Th starter are basketball challenged...this is an easy team to defend. This does fall on Muller. If you are going to recruit a 2/1...the player you are really going after better be what you thought he was. Pretty said that Hein has been the better player. DAVID has one more year left to make this recruiting strategy look like a good idea.
Not to mention, the big 3 can’t play 40 minutes, so sometimes we have 3-4 no ready for prime time D1 basketball players out there. Yet still, cough up a 14 point lead to SIUs 2nd string.

ChiRedbirdfan
Junior
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:19 am

Chicagobirdfan wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:42 am
Sladerunningbear wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:19 pm
I know every team does it, but it just seems we blow an inordinate amount of games....Northern Iowa, Wichita State, UCF, Wyoming, SIU...etc.

Tired of it!
I agree since muller has been our coach we have blown a lot of big leads. Not sure if it is coincidence or something with his style. Generally when we get out to big leads it’s because we are hot from 3 point range, when the other team figures it out, we don’t make necessary adjustments to win the game. Not exactly the case in this game, but some of the others mentioned it is.
:text-+1: I am very much pro-Muller but one area where I feel criticism is fair game and that he needs to improve upon and that is end of game coaching when the outcome of the game is on the line. I find myself perplexed at times by lack of time outs, plays out of time outs (or lack of), and personel management.
Last edited by ChiRedbirdfan on Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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