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Expansion Thoughts?

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
CaliRdBrd
Senior
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:10 am

RedbirdSoxFan wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:19 am
CaliRdBrd wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:33 pm
yawn
South Dakota State- 83 RPI
North Dakota State-98 RPI

Not great RPI’s, but would be top five in MVC. And they are already in the MVC in football.

Not saying they would be my choice, or the best choice, just a logical choice for adding two teams.
Not so much that I don’t think those teams are a good fit for the Valley. They are.
For me it’s the selfish notion that we are better than the Valley and the time to move is now. That said, I know we haven’t really done anything to warrant that move, but I’m fearful of being locked into a conference that is slowly morphing into the Horizon.

IHateWSU
Freshman
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:23 am

St. Mary's and Gonzaga. They would make nice travel partners.

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TIMMY
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Location: 1050 W Addison

Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:27 am

I love these topics. Remember when Loyola came in? Everyone bitching about their record? They don't look that bad now. You gotta look past that. Where can they be down the line. Grand Canyon has a big upside. Phoenix is a big market.
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Jsnhbe1Birds
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:55 am

cpacmel wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:30 pm
Jsnhbe1Birds wrote:
Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:54 pm
You want the league to be better. The only clear team to do that is adding GCU.
Really?

They are 9-3!! Against the 343 easiest schedule. Keep in mind there are only 351 schools. Can you say cupcakes?

They have zero wins over teams over .500.

4 of their 9 wins are against winless teams.

How do they help the mvc get stronger? They seem to be trending downward.

Plus no way Indy State, siu and others sign off on that travel.
They've only been in D1 for 5 years. They've already have had success. They have the facilities and rated one of the best atmospheres in college basketball. Rabid fan base. They have the coach, the money, and quality recruits are already coming in after 5 years. It's like buy in on the ground floor of yahoo. Then watching mature. GCU is primed to be the next Gonzaga, Wichita State, etc. If the Valley was truly just about picking the best programs to make the conference stronger and have a better opportunity to receive multiple bids they would add GCU and NMSU. If they're worried about other stuff then they're just being like they always are. But, they can do both by expanding to 14.

cpacmel
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:43 am

I don’t see it for a ton of reasons. The #1 being conferences are for the most part “like” universities. And when they aren’t (like ISU /Bradley) then proximity plays a big part.

Good luck trying to convince SIU and Indy State to make several trips out to Phoenix. Remember they were the ones that put in stipulations on how many times they would have to travel to the Dakotas in a given year for football. Now throw in the other sports (baseball, volleyball, softball, etc).

Not seeing it all.

SgtHulka
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:51 am

cpacmel wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:43 am
I don’t see it for a ton of reasons. The #1 being conferences are for the most part “like” universities. And when they aren’t (like ISU /Bradley) then proximity plays a big part.

Good luck trying to convince SIU and Indy State to make several trips out to Phoenix. Remember they were the ones that put in stipulations on how many times they would have to travel to the Dakotas in a given year for football. Now throw in the other sports (baseball, volleyball, softball, etc).

Not seeing it all.
Main plus I see there for personal reasons is Peoria has a direct flight to Phoenix. Nice winter road trip
Only ISU Volleyball can take ISU Basketball where it needs to go
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SoCalRedbird
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:20 pm

North Dakota State.

I like everything about their fanbase. They are passionate, knowledgeable, and they travel. Given a basketball conference upgrade, I think their fans would get behind the program.

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CB2K
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:41 pm

GCU is a conundrum of marketing and online profit -- I know people that live down there and they all say GCU is smoke and mirrors with money. Campus is in bad part of town but they have big $ and building top-notch sports complexes to try and drum up interest among recruits. Their bread and butter is online schooling but they are not very well respected among the townies and region. The downside is the travel for MVC members with many private school budgets let alone state schools.

If the Valley expanded regionally and acquired schools like GCU, SF Austin, etc, then they could create geographic divisions and control and reduce some of the cost of traveling. This would allow a greater footprint in geographic areas the Valley hasn't had since West Texas State and Louisville days.

SLU, Belmont and Murray State should be obvious contenders. I am ok with the Dakotas but they are football schools mostly and don't draw big crowds for basketball. They have had some decent basketball success in recent years and do fit the Valley profile. I would prefer DePaul over UIC -- The Blue Demons aren't going anywhere and the Flames are usually not that good although they are supposed to be good the next couple of years with the recruits they have. SLU would be the best choice in terms of market and support. The MVC Tournament would basically be home games for them.

Team support is crucial in growing the Valley product. We need people in the seats at local venues and in STL. Creighton and WSU had tremendous fan support but they are winning programs too. Remember the SIU and MO State fan support about a decade ago (especially in STL) -- they were winning programs then too.

Jsnhbe1Birds
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:02 pm

Private schools aren't the problem money wise. The poorest private has an endowment of $190-million. The richest public has an endowment of $140-million which is $50-million less than the poorest private. Nine out of ten MVC teams have an endowment of at least $100-million. Only Indiana State is relatively poor at $60-million. I'm sure each can come up with a way to spend an extra $100k in travel costs for the betterment of the conference. If they cant then that institution needs to have discussions of dropping down to D2 because their problems are bigger than sports.

CB2K
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:26 pm

Endowments are usually spoken for and most-often given to colleges of universities for operating budgets in perpetuity. Larger universities do obtain endowments for sports but it is infrequent in smaller universities. For the MVC -- boosters and donors are what keeps athletic departments robust. Koch brothers come to mind as well as some nice large donors at ISU that provided funding for some of the upgrades at RBA and Hancock.

cpacmel
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:51 pm

Like CB2k said....Money for athletics isn’t gonna come out of a school’s endowment. Not in the Missouri Valley.

I don’t think you realize how much some schools are hurting these days. SIU’s enrollment is the lowest it’s been in 5 decades. Indiana St basketball really needed some new uniforms. Their message board raised the money because their athletic department wouldn’t.

Redbird Alum 2004
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:04 pm

cpacmel wrote:
Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:51 pm
Indiana St basketball really needed some new uniforms. Their message board raised the money because their athletic department wouldn’t.
Good for the fans for doing it but yikes that had to scare recruits

Jsnhbe1Birds
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Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:19 pm

Nmsu knocked off number 6 miami...

DWRedbird
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:07 am

To throw a couple of more names out there beyond the usual, I wouldn't be opposed to adding Detroit Mercy and/or Oakland. I think both could be good gets from a basketball perspective, and add the Detroit market.

That said if I had my choice I'd want to add them in this order: Belmont, Murray State, SLU, Oakland, Detroit, NDSU, SDSU.

Tpguy
Sophomore
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:23 am

Illinois & Northwestern
Promise Illinois all conference home games

dpdoughbird06
Freshman
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:08 am

The reason you look for "like" schools is continuity. If GCU stramrolls the Valley, it will leapfrog to an even better conference in no time - I'm sure they have the funds to pay any early exit fee.

My preferences for expansion criteria in order:
1) Unify MVF/MVFC as much as possible (NDSU/SDSU)
2) Current MBB profile (Murray State/SLU/Belmont/NMSU)
3) Proximity (same as above; maybe UIC)
4) MBB Program/Athletics investment trending upward (Dakotas again, GCU, NMSU)

I'd rather the Valley not expand at all as long as we're a one-bid conference, but if they insist give me the Dakotas and move to finally align our money sports. Belmont/Murray/SLU would be fine, too.

MadBird
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Location: Madison, Wisconsin

Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

dpdoughbird06 wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:08 am
The reason you look for "like" schools is continuity. If GCU stramrolls the Valley, it will leapfrog to an even better conference in no time - I'm sure they have the funds to pay any early exit fee.

My preferences for expansion criteria in order:
1) Unify MVF/MVFC as much as possible (NDSU/SDSU)
2) Current MBB profile (Murray State/SLU/Belmont/NMSU)
3) Proximity (same as above; maybe UIC)
4) MBB Program/Athletics investment trending upward (Dakotas again, GCU, NMSU)

I'd rather the Valley not expand at all as long as we're a one-bid conference, but if they insist give me the Dakotas and move to finally align our money sports. Belmont/Murray/SLU would be fine, too.
These are almost exactly my thoughts, with a couple exceptions. I'm not interested in expanding the MVC/MFVC beyond the Rocky Mountains (or Appalachian for that matter), so GCU is not on my list. Belmont doesn't do much for me either. Pretty far to NMSU, altho I've been to Las Cruces several times and think it's a pretty nice place. And I'd add UW-Milwaukee to #3, we recruit Wisconsin in most sports, they have a fairly representative program all around (men's and women's hoops okay, baseball pretty good, swimming pretty good, etc.).

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TIMMY
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:12 pm

cpacmel wrote: Indiana St basketball really needed some new uniforms. Their message board raised the money because their athletic department wouldn’t.
now that's pathetic.
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Redbird Alum 2004
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:25 pm

Tpguy wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 10:23 am
Illinois & Northwestern
Promise Illinois all conference home games
I don't think Illinois would because they wouldn't be able to compete in football.

IHateWSU
Freshman
Posts: 96
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Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:17 pm

If we are a one bid league, why would we want to share the Money from the one NCAA bid with 12 or 14 schools instead of 10? Makes no fiscal sense.

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