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11/13 Chicago State game thread

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
TrueRedbirdFan23
Freshman
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:43 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:12 pm

:geek:
Adunk33 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:19 am
Buffett wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:09 am
Small sample size but 3pt shooting so far for Hein 14%, Tinsley 22% and Evans 14% a combined 4 for 23. that's also most likely 19 rebounds for the other team.
Chastain shoots 66.7% but can't get on the floor in the second half? Why?
Have you been watching him play??? He is lost. Bad unforced turnovers and can’t move laterally at all. You cant trust him at all. He isn’t even close to a D1 (mid-major) player. Benson tweeted that “if healthy” he can help this year. Guys... he’s healthy... he just isn’t very good. It is very obvious that he can’t play at this level.

Tpguy
Sophomore
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:25 am

I sure picked a bad morning to come out of a coma

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chuckie1980
Sophomore
Posts: 388
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:02 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 am

chuckie1980 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 pm
REDBIRDS 53
Chgo St 51

The suggestion of playing Milik ragged the whole game sounds like a great plan. BUT I that would screw up my prediction.
My victory range was almost spot on....
This team needs a team psychologist.

Am I wrong to state that I saw some glimmers of excellence in passing the ball around.
I always thought that Muller would be a Defense First type coach...and the best defense of the game was when Chicago State was stopped in their tracks when the full court press kicked in. I say play full court press the whole game, every game.

DWRedbird
Sophomore
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:37 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:28 am

chuckie1980 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 am
chuckie1980 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 pm
REDBIRDS 53
Chgo St 51

The suggestion of playing Milik ragged the whole game sounds like a great plan. BUT I that would screw up my prediction.
My victory range was almost spot on....
This team needs a team psychologist.


Am I wrong to state that I saw some glimmers of excellence in passing the ball around.
I always thought that Muller would be a Defense First type coach...and the best defense of the game was when Chicago State was stopped in their tracks when the full court press kicked in. I say play full court press the whole game, every game.
I've been thinking about the bolded part too. There are definitely a couple of guys on this team that I think it would more than help. I think all teams regardless of league or level should have a team counselor at the very least.

I also agree that we seemed to bring the most intensity when we pressed. I feel like we need to do that far more often throughout the game.

Other notes:

--MY responded big time to Dan's public challange. That was the most I've seen him hustle on both end of the floor between the two years. This is the MY we need more of.

--Our defense is still atrocious. Our guards dont play defense with their feet. I'm not sure what we need to do to get them to do it, but until they do, every game is going to be much closer than it should.

--Only thing worse than our defense is our rebounding. If we are only throwing one big out there, he cant be the only one going for the ball. We need the guards and wings to crash the defensive boards. Enough of this trying to beat the other team down the floor for a hopeful fast break, go get the damn ball.

--I wish we had 2 of Phil. He is so consistent at both ends of the floor.

--We shot too many 3s in the second half that were completely out of rythem, and were forced and that needs to stop. That said based in how we look at the line, I'm wondering if we dont drive to the bucket more because we are afraid to shoot free throws.

-- One of the scholarships for next year needs to go to a big who can defend and rebound. I dont care if the guy ever scored a point for us, just rebound and defend.

--A win is win but too many more like this and it is going to be a season that is hard to watch.

JHBird
Junior
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:29 am

Metamoron wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:56 pm
Big question.
Augie vs Chicago state

Who by how many?

Augie by 10.
I told somebody last night that I would like to see that matchup...Auggie by 2 in double OT.

Chicagobirdfan
Sophomore
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2017 2:39 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:32 am

chuckie1980 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:41 am
chuckie1980 wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:02 pm
REDBIRDS 53
Chgo St 51

The suggestion of playing Milik ragged the whole game sounds like a great plan. BUT I that would screw up my prediction.
My victory range was almost spot on....
This team needs a team psychologist.

Am I wrong to state that I saw some glimmers of excellence in passing the ball around.
I always thought that Muller would be a Defense First type coach...and the best defense of the game was when Chicago State was stopped in their tracks when the full court press kicked in. I say play full court press the whole game, every game.
I was saying this in the offseason, with the amount of guards we have, pressing is something we could be doing the whole game. Perhaps muller wanted to just work on man to man defense today against a weaker opponent (probably also why we did not 2-3 zone besides a small stretch). It’s been said on here already, if we can’t keep Chicago state in front of us, who will we be able to guard?

JHBird
Junior
Posts: 607
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:40 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:35 am

RedBirdBallisLife wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:07 pm
redbirds2000 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:06 pm
MY saved Dan's ass tonight. I bet he isn't benched for a loooong time. Hustle or no hustle.

Sure did!!
Without MY we lose to one of the worst D1 teams at home. Hard to believe this is one of DM's most talented teams. Listening to his radio interview he didn't seem that disappointed at how they played. I thought they hustled at times but too many easy baskets given up and balls thrown to the wrong color.

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saxman210
Sophomore
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Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:08 pm
Location: Lombard, IL
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:58 am

For anyone that likes pain and suffering, there’s a replay of last nights game on Comcast sports net right now. 19 minutes left in the game.
BRMM 2003-2006

twitter.com/saxman210

Sladerunningbear
Freshman
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:31 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:15 am

We’ve had back-to-back wake up calls. I think our problem is we hit the snooze button too many times.

AgGrad88
Freshman
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:50 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:36 am

Well I decided to wait overnight to cool off before posting anything. Last night was the first time I have ever left a game early. So frustrating to watch. I don't know if I would be quite as frustrated if there wasn't so much hype surrounding this team going into this season.
This team is SOOO SOFT. Soft on both ends of the floor. I hate to sound like a shocker, but we need to play angry and with a chip on our shoulder, you'd think after Dan called the team out on being uncommitted, they would want to come out with a chip and prove something. There is no leadership on the court 90% of the time and that's un excusable for a team with four seniors.

Milik and Phil - gave some decent minutes and I could tell Miliks attitude was different than it was at Belmont. We all know he can be a game changer, and this team will go as far as these two want to take us with some defensive commitment from others.

Zach - Boy does he love to shoot. He had 5 three point attempts in the first 3 minutes of play. He shows flashes of how good he can be, but I wish we would pass the ball 4-5 times before we just jack it up. He doesn't have to be the man anymore like he was in JC.

Josh- I really like this dude. He stays calm and keeps his composer. For the most part he never rushes his shot and lets the shot come to him. Of all the newcomers he is a pleasant surprise.

Keyshawn and Boogie- Are these guys seniors?! I expected Key to be the floor general and keep guys on track and for Boogie to pick up from where he left off last year. These two may be the biggest disappointments on the floor so far this year when you throw in the senior factor.

Matt and Matt- Until last night I was backing Hein by saying the reason why Dan gives him so many minutes is because of commitment. He always is giving 100% defensively and HE WILL DO WHAT DAN WANTS, he may be the only player to do that. But after last night... wow. His shot was god awful. He was lucky to hit the rim on a shot but most didn't quite get there. Matt Chastain is a lost puppy dog out there. I still think there is a glimmer of hope but the clock is ticking.

Ike- I'm not going to knock this kid. He is a walk on playing ahead of the scholarship players. He gives his all and is above average on both ends. Out of everyone he's one that plays with a chip.

Rey- He's a tank. I think he will get there. He's a true freshman.

This team needs to throw their egos out the window and figure this little game called basketball out. Dan needs to shut the hell up and let his coaching abilities speak for themselves. I'm sick of hearing excuses, weather he's blaming himself, the kids or any other factor. IT DOESNT MATTER! GET IT FIGURED OUT AND GET IT FIXED!

FriscoBird90
Freshman
Posts: 25
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:53 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:46 am

Perhaps Norman Dale is available to help teach ball movement and shot selection.

Brick
Sophomore
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:53 am

Some positives: Milik played hard both ends and on the board. He guarded everyone from their point guard to their center. Never saw one mention anywhere about that. When the game was on the line, Milik was the MAN ! Another positive when the game was on the line we played really good defense and we WON FROM BEHIND. that’s a good lesson to learn. Personally I think Key will be fine. He’s still playing catch-up after a number of weeks off. We know he had talent. I am not critical of Chastain like many of you. He had a couple blocks that were huge. I thought he played hard and I thought he played within the offense. Time will tell but again I think he will contribute. If Copeland starts making shots, look out. He’s got athletic talent. All in all while not happy with last nights game I will take the win and move on. Too early in the season for so many to write this team off

Baltimore Bird
Freshman
Posts: 190
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:12 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:59 am

It has all been said. SOFT. NOT SMART. Maybe we just aren't very good either. Time will tell on that one.

Key---I just don't understand what happened to him. Two straight turnovers and then a wide open 3 point air ball. He has not been good since the 1st month of last season.

The only two positives I saw from last night were these....

---Milik can play. He needs to carry this team on offense.
---The press was very effective. It is obvious we cannot guard anyone and don't rotate well when in zone. Let's press/trap for 40 minutes and see what happens. I am told we are athletic.

We will beat no one left on our schedule if last night becomes the norm.
Redbirds and Cardinals, A Combination that Makes Sense! GO BIRDS!

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saxman210
Sophomore
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Location: Lombard, IL
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Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:11 am

As far as Chastain goes, he’s been hurt a good majority of the summer and fall with his knee. He’s going to take some time to get to game speed.

Matt Hein. The kid has heart. He just isn’t good at basketball.
BRMM 2003-2006

twitter.com/saxman210

ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1245
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:15 am

Baltimore Bird wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:59 am
It has all been said. SOFT. NOT SMART. Maybe we just aren't very good either. Time will tell on that one.

Key---I just don't understand what happened to him. Two straight turnovers and then a wide open 3 point air ball. He has not been good since the 1st month of last season.

The only two positives I saw from last night were these....

---Milik can play. He needs to carry this team on offense.
---The press was very effective. It is obvious we cannot guard anyone and don't rotate well when in zone. Let's press/trap for 40 minutes and see what happens. I am told we are athletic.

We will beat no one left on our schedule if last night becomes the norm.
If you believe ISU can not play man to man defense and can not play zone defense very well why do you believe we are going to be a good pressing/full court defensive team...just because the Chicago State responded poorly to the press?

Jsnhbe1Birds
Senior
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:59 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:19 am

This team TRIES to be flashy and fails most of the time. They go for about 10 ally-oops per game and convert maybe two on a good night. The other eight are turnovers thrown out of bounds. Now, 10 is an exaggeration but those five turnovers may end up being 2/3 baskets for 6/7 points. Maybe you draw a foul and get 7 or 8 points on those five possessions that you threw away trying to make ESPN's top 10. I don't need behind the look passes or any of that crap. I can buy a ticket to the Globetrotter's if I'm interested. That street ball mentality where its all flash and no defense is holding this team back...among other things.

gobirds72
Freshman
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:56 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:28 am

AgGrad88 wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:36 am
Well I decided to wait overnight to cool off before posting anything. Last night was the first time I have ever left a game early. So frustrating to watch. I don't know if I would be quite as frustrated if there wasn't so much hype surrounding this team going into this season.
This team is SOOO SOFT. Soft on both ends of the floor. I hate to sound like a shocker, but we need to play angry and with a chip on our shoulder, you'd think after Dan called the team out on being uncommitted, they would want to come out with a chip and prove something. There is no leadership on the court 90% of the time and that's un excusable for a team with four seniors.

Milik and Phil - gave some decent minutes and I could tell Miliks attitude was different than it was at Belmont. We all know he can be a game changer, and this team will go as far as these two want to take us with some defensive commitment from others.

Zach - Boy does he love to shoot. He had 5 three point attempts in the first 3 minutes of play. He shows flashes of how good he can be, but I wish we would pass the ball 4-5 times before we just jack it up. He doesn't have to be the man anymore like he was in JC.

Josh- I really like this dude. He stays calm and keeps his composer. For the most part he never rushes his shot and lets the shot come to him. Of all the newcomers he is a pleasant surprise.

Keyshawn and Boogie- Are these guys seniors?! I expected Key to be the floor general and keep guys on track and for Boogie to pick up from where he left off last year. These two may be the biggest disappointments on the floor so far this year when you throw in the senior factor.

Matt and Matt- Until last night I was backing Hein by saying the reason why Dan gives him so many minutes is because of commitment. He always is giving 100% defensively and HE WILL DO WHAT DAN WANTS, he may be the only player to do that. But after last night... wow. His shot was god awful. He was lucky to hit the rim on a shot but most didn't quite get there. Matt Chastain is a lost puppy dog out there. I still think there is a glimmer of hope but the clock is ticking.

Ike- I'm not going to knock this kid. He is a walk on playing ahead of the scholarship players. He gives his all and is above average on both ends. Out of everyone he's one that plays with a chip.

Rey- He's a tank. I think he will get there. He's a true freshman.

This team needs to throw their egos out the window and figure this little game called basketball out. Dan needs to shut the hell up and let his coaching abilities speak for themselves. I'm sick of hearing excuses, weather he's blaming himself, the kids or any other factor. IT DOESNT MATTER! GET IT FIGURED OUT AND GET IT FIXED!
You don’t have to be Greg Popovich to see this team is only going to go as far as Yarborough, Evans and Fayne take them! We have added some missing pieces to the puzzle (Copeland and Jefferson)...but we aren’t 9-10 deep! If the big three doesn’t play 30+ minutes...this team isn’t going to the NIT! Yeah, they maybe soft some nights, they may have an off day, but so do we! The bottom line is tha we can all complain about Yarborough...but without him we aren’t as good!

ricohill
Junior
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:31 am

As much as I would like to put this on the players, I am still not convinced a lot of this falls on Muller.

We have Phil Fayne shooting 61.8% from 2 and Milik shooting 66.6% from 2. Yet, our entire offense if throwing the ball around the perimeter until someone jacks up a three.

We go up 54-47 with 12:17 left on a 2 pt shot by Milik then we go:
Missed 3 by Milik
Missed 3 by Tinsley
Missed jumper by Milik
Made Layup by Tinsley
Turnover by Milik
Missed 3 by Milik
Made Layup Milik
Missed 3 Tinsley
Missed Jumper by Milik
Made layup by Rey
Turnover Copeland
Made Ft's Jefferson
Missed 3pt Jefferson
Missed 3 pt Jefferson
Turnover Evans
Missed 3 Copeland
Fayne Missed FT
Missed 3pt Evans
At that point the game was 68-62 Chicago State (we made two FT's on an offensive rebound of the Evans miss to cut it to 4)

It is a 13 point swing in the game and instead of going inside to Fayne or setting Milik up to iso and drive or post up we just settle for 3's or jumpers. I'm tired of hearing, "We shoot well in practice" from Muller.

Currently we are shooting from 3:
Jefferson - 55%
Gassman - 40% (only 2-5)
Milik - 33% (only 2-6)
Copeland - 33%
Evans - 20%
Tinsley - 23%
Hein - 12.5%

Our defense effort isn't great, but I don't know how you improve that when Hein, Chastian, Tinsley, and Gasman have no quickness?

ricohill
Junior
Posts: 588
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:00 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:36 am

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:15 am
Baltimore Bird wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:59 am
It has all been said. SOFT. NOT SMART. Maybe we just aren't very good either. Time will tell on that one.

Key---I just don't understand what happened to him. Two straight turnovers and then a wide open 3 point air ball. He has not been good since the 1st month of last season.

The only two positives I saw from last night were these....

---Milik can play. He needs to carry this team on offense.
---The press was very effective. It is obvious we cannot guard anyone and don't rotate well when in zone. Let's press/trap for 40 minutes and see what happens. I am told we are athletic.

We will beat no one left on our schedule if last night becomes the norm.
If you believe ISU can not play man to man defense and can not play zone defense very well why do you believe we are going to be a good pressing/full court defensive team...just because the Chicago State responded poorly to the press?
Chicago State is one of the worst teams in basketball. That press probably doesn't force those turnovers against most other college basketball teams. Also, we have no real depth. Do you want Hein, Gassman, Chastain, and Tinsley running all over the court?

Jsnhbe1Birds
Senior
Posts: 1316
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:59 pm

Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:43 am

not being able to finish inside has been a problem for years, as well. but I agree they cant go that long without getting it inside to fayne at some point.

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