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11/13 Chicago State game thread

The place to talk Redbird Men's Basketball
birdlife
Freshman
Posts: 48
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:37 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:08 am

i find myself wishing MH was more serviceable on offense, to go along with his average (at best) defense. yes he makes the hustle plays on defense, but if the guards (KE, WT, JJ, ZC, IG, MC) were all contributing and making the hustle plays, HCDM would have confidence in each of them. i would think that would be the last time we see MH getting anything but garbage time. until then, expect to see him often in the first half, if not starting games.

RedbirdMan
Freshman
Posts: 159
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:11 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:16 am

Will probably be way closer than it should be. I am not a Muller homer like some of the guys on here, been critical of a lot of his decisions since he has arrived here. Last year it felt like he had made progress with his coaching as the year progressed and made a flawed team into a competitive team late in the season but starting this year I think it looks like we are back to square one. He doesn’t know how to coach his players and is taking shots at them in the media. Pretty immature stuff for a D1 b-ball coach.
A lot of you are saying to not start the regulars tonight which is just idiotic. Against a team they should stomp it would be good to have our better players get some good mojo going especially Keyshawn and MY.

ISU-78
CSU-65
3000 people

Adunk33
Senior
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:08 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:27 am

RedbirdMan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:16 am
He doesn’t know how to coach his players and is taking shots at them in the media. Pretty immature stuff for a D1 b-ball coach.
Not immature at all and happens more time than you think. It is intended to be a motivational tool. Plus it's not like Muller is just throwing his players under the bus, he is being self-deprecating as well. It was probably also a way to explain to fans why they might not seeing the "best players" as often as they might think. Basically, if a player is the best on paper, it does not mean he is the best on the court. Its hard to measure hustle plays, box outs, getting in the passing lanes, and overall effort on paper.

Based off effort alone, I would start Hein, Gassman, Chastain, Rey, and Phil. I know that won't happen, and unfortunately we aren't at the youth level where the "hardest workers" get to play. Maybe they will, who knows. Muller said after Belmont the second five have consistently been beating the 1st team in practice. That shouldn't happen. What the saying that's been beat to death? Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. It's clearly been happening in practice.

If the guys I listed don't start it means there were really good practices Monday and this morning. They had Sunday off.

RedbirdSoxFan
Junior
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:34 am

birdlife wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:08 am
i find myself wishing MH was more serviceable on offense, to go along with his average (at best) defense. yes he makes the hustle plays on defense, but if the guards (KE, WT, JJ, ZC, IG, MC) were all contributing and making the hustle plays, HCDM would have confidence in each of them. i would think that would be the last time we see MH getting anything but garbage time. until then, expect to see him often in the first half, if not starting games.
If Hein averages more minutes than Yarbrough, Fayne, Tinsley, Copeland, Evans, Jefferson, or Gassman; Illinois State will not beat Georgia, and will not face Clemson in the 2nd round. If they beat Georgia and he averages more minutes against Clemson, they will not beat Clemson.
Illinois State will not beat any good teams with Hein averaging more minutes than those players. We need our best players on the floor.......
You recruited them, you figure out a way to keep them on the floor.

Buffett
Freshman
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:34 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:09 am

Small sample size but 3pt shooting so far for Hein 14%, Tinsley 22% and Evans 14% a combined 4 for 23. that's also most likely 19 rebounds for the other team.

Adunk33
Senior
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:08 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:19 am

Buffett wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:09 am
Small sample size but 3pt shooting so far for Hein 14%, Tinsley 22% and Evans 14% a combined 4 for 23. that's also most likely 19 rebounds for the other team.
Chastain shoots 66.7% but can't get on the floor in the second half? Why?

RedbirdSoxFan
Junior
Posts: 513
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:31 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:36 am

Adunk33 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:19 am
Buffett wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:09 am
Small sample size but 3pt shooting so far for Hein 14%, Tinsley 22% and Evans 14% a combined 4 for 23. that's also most likely 19 rebounds for the other team.
Chastain shoots 66.7% but can't get on the floor in the second half? Why?
Coach Muller didn't put him in :dance:

Brick
Sophomore
Posts: 272
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:51 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Two a day practicing. Morning one ONLY on defense. Paraphrase. Whomever practices hardest plays 😀

Phantom
Sophomore
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:44 pm

I don't care if we go the Norman Dale route and put a stranglehold on our own offense with four passes before a shot. There are such things as fundamentals and defense that even the most talented & athletic teams can't ignore.

You cannot just walk into an arena, home or road, and not put forth some defensive effort. Some games you'll give up points, yes, but if there is just ONE thing you CANNOT do on defense or rebounding, is be lazy. If you get scored on, you get scored on. But don't be lazy.

CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:20 pm

Buffett wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:09 am
Small sample size but 3pt shooting so far for Hein 14%, Tinsley 22% and Evans 14% a combined 4 for 23. that's also most likely 19 rebounds for the other team.
Most likely 19 looong rebounds. Rebounds that typically result in fast breaks for the other team

CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 pm

Phantom wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:44 pm
I don't care if we go the Norman Dale route and put a stranglehold on our own offense with four passes before a shot. There are such things as fundamentals and defense that even the most talented & athletic teams can't ignore.

You cannot just walk into an arena, home or road, and not put forth some defensive effort. Some games you'll give up points, yes, but if there is just ONE thing you CANNOT do on defense or rebounding, is be lazy. If you get scored on, you get scored on. But don't be lazy.
Whats most frustrating is defense is an easy fix; It's really all about mindset and rotation. A weak offense is much tougher to fix.

Equally frustrating is the fact that Dan was a defensive God at ISU. How in the hell is it that he can't get his players to buy into that same kind of mind-set is mind-boggling. That alone make me things something is way off in regard to his ability to coach at this level.

I want a 30+ win tonight and I want our foot on their throats until the final buzzer. Do that, and I'll feel slightly better about where we're at.

Phantom
Sophomore
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:31 pm

CaliRdBrd wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:24 pm
Phantom wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:44 pm
I don't care if we go the Norman Dale route and put a stranglehold on our own offense with four passes before a shot. There are such things as fundamentals and defense that even the most talented & athletic teams can't ignore.

You cannot just walk into an arena, home or road, and not put forth some defensive effort. Some games you'll give up points, yes, but if there is just ONE thing you CANNOT do on defense or rebounding, is be lazy. If you get scored on, you get scored on. But don't be lazy.
Whats most frustrating is defense is an easy fix; It's really all about mindset and rotation. A weak offense is much tougher to fix.

Equally frustrating is the fact that Dan was a defensive God at ISU. How in the hell is it that he can't get his players to buy into that same kind of mind-set is mind-boggling. That alone make me things something is way off in regard to his ability to coach at this level.

I want a 30+ win tonight and I want our foot on their throats until the final buzzer. Do that, and I'll feel slightly better about where we're at.
Yep. I mean, it IS only two games in so it could just be an anomaly. We've had guys that were excellent defenders under DM (PLee, TWills, etc.) so I'm not about to say DM is going to rely on outscoring people every game. But I agree given his defensive prowess as a player, and his teaching of it at times in his years here, you expect it to be a strength of his teams, not something to exploit. I'm hoping what we saw at Belmont was just an extreme rarity.

The Richardson & Moser eras here were literally the opposite scenario. No clue where the points would be found but for the most part those teams defended and rebounded and kept us in most games.

ISU FAN 1
Senior
Posts: 1460
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:04 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:48 pm

TIMMY wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:27 am
I'm not either. It's a long season and I've heard enough whining already.
And I haven’t even gotten started yet.

Jsnhbe1Birds
Senior
Posts: 1317
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:59 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:51 pm

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:48 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:27 am
I'm not either. It's a long season and I've heard enough whining already.
And I haven’t even gotten started yet.
Milik got in trouble last season before a gimmie game and they lost to Charleston Southern. If that happens tonight I bet you will start :)

ChiRedbirdfan
Senior
Posts: 1246
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 4:48 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:13 pm

Looking for the Milik/Muller devil to be put to bed tonight and for the season.

Redbirdfan21
Sophomore
Posts: 363
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 pm
Location: Springfield, IL
Contact:

Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:55 pm


CaliRdBrd
Senior
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:24 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 pm

ChiRedbirdfan wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:13 pm
Looking for the Milik/Muller devil to be put to bed tonight and for the season.
Jesus, I hope so!

User avatar
TIMMY
Junior
Posts: 635
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:28 pm
Location: 1050 W Addison

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:10 pm

ISU FAN 1 wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:48 pm
TIMMY wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:27 am
I'm not either. It's a long season and I've heard enough whining already.
And I haven’t even gotten started yet.
There's tonight! ;)
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Tpguy
Sophomore
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:02 pm

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:12 pm

Copeland 1/22 from 3 so far

We are playing with a 12 second clock

Adunk33
Senior
Posts: 1511
Joined: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:08 am

Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:14 pm

Tinsley seems to be the one in the dog house.

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